Are there any boxing fans on here as well? (Official Kakutougi Boxing discussion)

[Soulrise]

Of course the main focus for these boards is MMA, Kickboxing, and Muay Thai which is great but I'm just curious if there are any boxing fans on these boards as well. The next few months have some GREAT fights coming up, I can't even remember the last time there was such a long stretch of great bouts lined up like this:

9/29: Jermain Taylor vs. Kelly Pavlik
10/6: Manny Pacquiao vs. Marco Antonio Barrera 2
10/13: Juan Diaz vs. Julio Diaz
11/3: Joe Calzaghe vs. Mikkel Kessler
11/10: ***MIGUEL COTTO VS. SHANE MOSLEY***
12/8: Floyd Mayweather vs. Ricky Hatton

Wow, this will be a great time to be a boxing fan. And as much as I'm eagerly anticipating all these match ups can I just say that I truly believe that Cotto/Mosley will be a fight for the ages!!!

Anyways I was just curious to see if any of you were also fellow boxing fans. If so maybe we can use this thread to discuss the sport since it isn't included in the combat sports section.

[Shinbone]

I sometimes watch boxing on Eurosport. I'm not a real boxing fan but when nothing else is shown on the telly I can watch it.

Sometimes they also broadcast live world championships on German TV, but that's always in the middle of the night so that's not an option either.

In the old days people got out of their beds to watch Muhammed Ali, these days are no longer. In fact boxing is not popular at all in Holland.

So, I'm not a boxing fan I just like to watch from time to time.

[aubtin]

10/6: Manny Pacquiao vs. Marco Antonio Barrera 2
11/3: Joe Calzaghe vs. Mikkel Kessler
11/10: ***MIGUEL COTTO VS. SHANE MOSLEY***
12/8: Floyd Mayweather vs. Ricky Hatton

I'm looking forward to these fights, especially Hatton-Mayweather.

I used to be into boxing a lot when I was younger. I remember watching Tyson fights with my Dad when I was a kid. And when I was in my teens we had a great period of boxing in the UK with fighters like Eubank and Benn, and then of course there was Nas. But since then boxings gone off the boil for me thought I do still watch.

But as you say definitely some quality fights to come this year.

[K1power]

I enjoy boxing when something actually happens during the fight rather than hugging for 12 rounds like 90% of the fights nowadays. Especially the HW pool in boxing is weak compared to the old days when one legend used to follow the other.

I like watching Wladimir Klitschko knocking guys out though. I caught Klitschko VS Brock/Austin/Brewster live and those were some good KO's/victories. Too bad Vitali's having the back problems at the moment postponing his comeback cause it would be really cool if the Klitschkos managed to unify the belts.

[Shinbone]

I'm also interested by the South-Africans in boxing with Dutch roots.
Gerrie Goetzee, Cornelius (Corrie) Sanders and Frans Botha they all were SA world heavy weight champions. Furthermore, we had Bep van Klaveren but boxing never was and never will be a big sport here.

Did you know that K-1 powert?

[K1power]

I'm also interested by the South-Africans in boxing with Dutch roots.
Gerrie Goetzee, Cornelius (Corrie) Sanders and Frans Botha they all were SA world heavy weight champions. Furthermore, we had Bep van Klaveren but boxing never was and never will be a big sport here.

Did you know that K-1 powert?

Botha was a fraud though... I like the guy by now, but he never was a "world champion"... I remember his title fight against Axel Schulz (Germany) in the early 90's. Back then I wasn't even 10 years old, but stayed up all night to see the fight - Boxing was the only "real fighting" I knew back then.

I was dissappointed as my man Axel lost the decision and Botha - who was just as much a loudmouth back then as he was when he started in k-1 - won the title only to get it stripped from him like the very next day because he was tested positive for doping and suddenly a lot of whitnesses popped up confirming/telling how they saw suspect behaviour from Botha and his team. It was a pretty big story on German television.

It was in 1999 I believe when Botha had a real good showing against Tyson. He won like the first five rounds only to get knocked out the next one... Tyson was on a decline for some time back then, but still he was one of the men to beat and Botha did very well that fight. Unfortunately, that must have been his best performance since I can't really recall him beating anyone noteworthy in boxing.

[Shinbone]

I know the history of Frans. I knowhe got stripped off the title in 1995 and I know he got cocky against Tyson and lost.

But to say he did not beat anyone noteworthy is not completely through.
He fought Briggs, Ettienne, Moorer and he drew them because he fought them in the house of the devil. All fights were in front of the home crowds of the Amerikaners.

He got beaten by Klitchko and Lewis, yes but they were beyond everything they were the best of the best.

[K1power]

My point of him not actually defeating them still stands though and just watching his record now I see that Moorer TKO'd him ;)

I get your point though mate. If one thing though I've never seen Frans knocked out COLD! Not in K-1 and not in boxing. Down yes, out of it yes, but never asleep. He's really tough!

[Shinbone]

My point of him not actually defeating them still stands though and just watching his record now I see that Moorer TKO'd him ;)

I get your point though mate. If one thing though I've never seen Frans knocked out COLD! Not in K-1 and not in boxing. Down yes, out of it yes, but never asleep. He's really tough!

True, Moorer beat him, but Ettiene en Briggs he beat but the corrupt jury thought otherwise.

Yes he is tough and yes he has a hard head, the head of a 'wit buffel'.

[K1power]

BTW I see he has fought recently, that confirms his talk of making another run for it in boxing and explains his absence in K-1... Too bad though as he got more and more adapted to the style and there were some good wins he still could have had, not against anyone top 5, but still...

[Shinbone]

BTW I see he has fought recently, that confirms his talk of making another run for it in boxing and explains his absence in K-1... Too bad though as he got more and more adapted to the style and there were some good wins he still could have had, not against anyone top 5, but still...

I don't agree. When he got beaten by Mo I was so disapointed! His fight vs Musashi was a farce in my view.

He fought well against Jerome and Bonjasky but apart from that his fights were not so good to be honest, nevertheless I liked him.
Botha was not a power puncher more a point fighter or counter fighter and he had to fought agressive in K-1 and that was not his style I guess.

I think he begun to late with K-1 and he was sometimes not in the greatest shape... too heavy.
He got wins over Aerts and LeBanner but they injured themselves, so if he hadn't won those fights he lost all his fights in k-1.
But he is now 39 years he is in the winter of his carreer perhaps one year in boxing and the I think it's time to retire maybe.

[Soulrise]

Thanks to whichever mod bumped this post to the "Official Kakutougi Boxing Discussion" :) .

It's cool to see that there are other MMA/Kickboxing/Muay Thai fans who appreciate the sweet science as well. Especially fans who have a different perspective, I'm going to look into some of those Dutch boxers you named Shinbone. Living in the U.S. my main exposure to boxers are obviously U.S. boxers and the international boxing stars who eventually make their way over to the U.S...

[Shinbone]

Thanks to whichever mod bumped this post to the "Official Kakutougi Boxing Discussion" :) .

It's cool to see that there are other MMA/Kickboxing/Muay Thai fans who appreciate the sweet science as well. Especially fans who have a different perspective, I'm going to look into some of those Dutch boxers you named Shinbone. Living in the U.S. my main exposure to boxers are obviously U.S. boxers and the international boxing stars who eventually make their way over to the U.S...

They are South African not Dutch. If you need help please ask me.

[Soulrise]

Thanks, I should've said "of Dutch ancestry" but I figured it was implied from your original post. But due to my politics it's kind of hard for me to call them South African but we'll leave politics out of a thread on boxing ;)

I plan to mainly look into Gerrie Goetzee and Cornelius Sanders since I wasn't too impressed with what I've seen out of Botha (admittedly I've only seen his fights against Tyson, Lewis, Briggs, and Klitschko). In general I haven't been a big fan of the heavyweight division since the late 80s and early 90s.

[Global Honored]

GH's prognostication plus:

COTTO inherits the thrown, best P4P fighter on the planet, with a dismantling and 5th RD KO of Sugah Shane!

Pavlik finally finishes Taylor to end the reign of boredom/bad decisions...KRONK just does not work for Arkansas...ians

Floyd "dances" and Ricky sees stars..sorta...another clear cut decision for Pretty Boy. But as I said before...Cotto is now everyone's numba one

Calzaghe is tested..but in the end, does enough damage to win a call over a very under-rated Kessler.

Pac-Man dominates and ends the career of the Warrior...Manny early..3rd Rd.

What about the ressurection of Hearns...Kronk's Kermit Cintron? This brutha has that snaking right hand that does massive damage....he is a true champion of the future!!!

All those are great. Peter vs Golota though man! HW galore...or something.?

[Shinbone]

Thanks, I should've said "of Dutch ancestry" but I figured it was implied from your original post. But due to my politics it's kind of hard for me to call them South African but we'll leave politics out of a thread on boxing ;)

I plan to mainly look into Gerrie Goetzee and Cornelius Sanders since I wasn't too impressed with what I've seen out of Botha (admittedly I've only seen his fights against Tyson, Lewis, Briggs, and Klitschko). In general I haven't been a big fan of the heavyweight division since the late 80s and early 90s.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrie_Coetzee
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrie_Sanders

[Global Honored]

Sugah Shane and BALCO!!!

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/more/09/28/mosley/index.html

[Soulrise]

GH's prognostication plus:

COTTO inherits the thrown, best P4P fighter on the planet, with a dismantling and 5th RD KO of Sugah Shane!

Pavlik finally finishes Taylor to end the reign of boredom/bad decisions...KRONK just does not work for Arkansas...ians

Floyd "dances" and Ricky sees stars..sorta...another clear cut decision for Pretty Boy. But as I said before...Cotto is now everyone's numba one

Calzaghe is tested..but in the end, does enough damage to win a call over a very under-rated Kessler.

Pac-Man dominates and ends the career of the Warrior...Manny early..3rd Rd.

What about the ressurection of Hearns...Kronk's Kermit Cintron? This brutha has that snaking right hand that does massive damage....he is a true champion of the future!!!

All those are great. Peter vs Golota though man! HW galore...or something.?

I agree with all your picks except for Cotto/Mosley and Taylor/Pavlik. In the case of Cotto and Mosley I have absolutely NO idea who will win. I keep going back and forth between the two and I change my mind just about every time I think about the fight. That's part of the reason why I'm so excited for it since I truly believe either of them could pull it off in spectacular fashion. Wow what an evenly matched fight! As for Taylor/Pavlik while I think The Ghost is a very entertaining fighter I think Taylor's speed and overal tactics will prevail. Yes he's looked like shit in his last three fights but Wright, Ouma, and Spinks are three of the trickiest southpaws around and would give ANYONE problems. Kelly's defense also leaves something to be desired and Emmanuel Steward is correct when he points out that the caliber of Pavlik's opponents has been nowhere near the level of Jermain's. While I still think Pavlik will give Taylor a good fight and a stiff test I'm picking Jermain by SD.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerrie_Coetzee
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrie_Sanders

Thanks for the links!

Sugah Shane and BALCO!!!

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/more/09/28/mosley/index.html

I know! I just read about it myself...I guess I shouldn't be surprised but it still sucks that his victory over Oscar has now been tainted.

[Lord Gaul]

To answer the opening question I am a big time boxing fan. They are having there best year ever when you look at how the last 4 months of the year are going to go. As for as combat sports this was really a big time year.

Oh and as far as Taylor/Pavlik goes, I am going to pick Taylor. I know that Pavlik is the sexy pic because of the KO power, but there is something to be said for someone that can win ugly.

[heckyl]

WAR HATTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Global Honored]

JERMAINE goes down! Heck YES! now..WAR PAC-MAN!

[heckyl]

Pavlik i thought was going down after that early start. but damn did he pick it up toward the end and got the finish. was exciting for sure.

[Soulrise]

Yeah Jermain had him finished in the 2nd. If he woulda just calmed down and slowed down for a sec he coulda picked him apart and put him away for good. So much for silencing his critics. Up til the point knocked out he clearly displayed superior speed and technical ability. Oh well.

Pavlik fought a great fight but I don't think he'll be champ for long. His poor defense and lack of speed are going to be his downfall.

One last thought, why didn't the ref give Jermain a 10 count? He definitely looked hurt but I was surprised that he didn't even give him a chance to get back up considering all the talk of how he was a "fighter's ref"...

[Lord Gaul]

Soulrise he didn't give him a ten count because he didn't fall down until he stoped it. In the unified rules there are no Standing 8 counts, So when Jermain was just blocking as Kelly was unloading the ref steped in and stoped it. There was no eight count to be made.

Regardless it was a great fight and Jermain was an amazing fighter. He really showed that he was a tough guy and that he would put up a great fight. But in the end Kelly showed even more heart. He almost loses the fight and then goes back to work. I had Taylor up by one point by the time of the stoppage, but man was it a great fight. Can't wait for the rematch.

[aubtin]

WAR HATTON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good stuff heckyl!

Also don't know if many people saw it but Clinton Woods v Julio Cesar Gonzalez for Woods' IBF belt was a good one.

[Soulrise]

Lord Gaul, I didn't realize that Taylor didn't fall until the ref stopped it but that would make sense. I'm looking forward to the rematch as well.

Aubtin, I didn't see Woods/Gonzalez but from the recaps I've read it sounded good.

[aubtin]

Aubtin, I didn't see Woods/Gonzalez but from the recaps I've read it sounded good.

I much prefered it to Taylor-Pavlik, but I'm a big Woods fan. Woods took a few too many shots for my liking but looked fantastic in parts, Gonzalez was just too tough for him to finish though.

This only shows the last two rounds

ii45I1K3JRQ

[Soulrise]

Thanks for posting that Aubtin.

[Rattlesnake840]

I like it dont follow it like I used to.... The Contender actually started getting me back into it

[FieldingMellish]

I have trouble watching boxing these days.

Used to be a massive fan (1995-2001 I watched far more boxing than MMA) but now it just looks too limited and far too often, predictable.

Just watched Pacquiao-Barrera II and ended up skipping through the later rounds due to simple boredom.

Was disappointed with how Barrera fought. A shame his career ended with such a timid and weak performance (the illegal punch on the break and his bullshit interview afterwards, aside).

[Lord Gaul]

Barrera is simply done. He really wanted the Pac fight, because he was embarrised in the first. But Pac is simply to much for him and I didn't see anyway how he could lose.

I think the big think with MMA is you can get like four fights in during the time you get one boxing match. If a MMA fight is boring you simply have to wait it out. But if a boxing fight is boring, you have to change it.

Never the less I am a huge boxing fan. Infact I like it more overall then MMA because I can watch it at lower levels and see some good shows. I can only stand top level MMA. The rest is simple one round blow outs.

[Soulrise]

While I was never much of a fan of Barrera as a person as a boxer he has been a participant in many legendary wars that I won't forget. He will be missed (that is if he actually retires).

[Soulrise]

This weekend we've got Julio Diaz vs. Juan Diaz and Holyfield vs. Ibragimov...will anyone be watching either fight? What are your picks?

[FieldingMellish]

Was just messing around on youtube and did a search for the David Tua vs Ike Ibeabuchi fight from several years ago.

This is an absolute must see fight - one of the greatest HW fights of all time. And its all there (albeit in about 7 parts).

But seriously, if you've never seen it, take a look. Just awesome. And such a shame Ike went completely insane and ruinsed his career.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=david+tua+ike+ibeabuchi&search=Search

[Soulrise]

Was just messing around on youtube and did a search for the David Tua vs Ike Ibeabuchi fight from several years ago.

This is an absolute must see fight - one of the greatest HW fights of all time. And its all there (albeit in about 7 parts).

But seriously, if you've never seen it, take a look. Just awesome. And such a shame Ike went completely insane and ruinsed his career.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=david+tua+ike+ibeabuchi&search=Search

That was definitely a classic fight. Thanks for the link, it's been awhile since I've seen it!

[FieldingMellish]

Soulrise:

Did you watch Holyfield-Ibragimov? From what I read it sounded horrifically bad.

[Soulrise]

Fielding, I didn't watch either Holyfield/Ibragimov or more sadly Diaz/Diaz. I never planned to pay up to watch Holyfield/Ibragimov since I pretty much expected the fight to play out the way it did. As for Diaz/Diaz I would've liked to have seen it but I recently broke up with my gf who had HBO. Until my income becomes more steady I'll have to go awhile longer without cable meaning I'll be sticking to sports bars for my boxing fix, but this Saturday I had other plans so I had to miss it :(

[Soulrise]

Calzaghe vs. Kessler this Saturday!! I'm picking Calzaghe but damn if Kessler isn't impressive as well. Who else will be watching? I think this fight has all the makings of a classic...

[aubtin]

^ I can't wait!! I've been pumped for this fight for months. I'm going for Calzaghe too but Kessler's a tough bastard. Calzaghe was on Inside Sport (the same sports show that did the UFC report) and he said he's gonna retire in a year. With the shape his hand's in he'd be lucky to get 2 fights in that time.

Inside sport Calzaghe (http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/player/sol/newsid_7060000/newsid_7062100?redirect=7062183.stm&news=1&nbwm=1&nbram=1&bbwm=1&bbram=1)

[Soulrise]

How big is the hype for the fight in London aubtin? It seems like it's getting a great amount of press and hype...Boxing as a whole seems to be thriving in Europe right now...

[Lord Gaul]

This fight is going to be awesome. I got Kessler dethrowning the long time champ. I can't wait for this, and with Marquez vs Rocky on Showtime I got a full night ahead of me.

[Toffa]

I'll take a sig and av bet on Calzaghe, I think his handspeed will be too much. I don't think Kessler has really been tested.

[Global Honored]

I think Kessler can pull this off as well, plus MY BOY COTTO gets Sugah Shane (unroided) at MSG next weekend! Sweet!!! Then Pretty Boy Floyd will show Hatton what real boxing skillz be in DEC....love the unbeatens going at it...who is the best P4P boxer in the world? Outside a Pac-Man argument...this next month and a bit should give us some clues.

[Lefty]

I think Joe will win by Dec. No way will Kess match his punch output and Joe's VERY underated defensive game will make him hard to hit.

As for Cotto/Mosley....very hard to call. I'lll be rooting for Mosley and hope he fights the way he did against Vargas. Shane better move his feet otherwise those Cotto body punches will tear him up.

Cant wait to see Mayweather dismantle Hatton. Hatton's always been overated in my book.

[( o Y o )]

No Kameda discussion in here at all?

[Soulrise]

No Kameda discussion in here at all?

I know who Kameda is (flyweight champion from Japan correct?) but I've never actually seen any of his fights. The U.S. boxing audience isn't very big on flyweights (and to be honest they're a little to small even for my liking) so he hasn't gotten any exposure over here. I only know his name from browsing various boxing sites that have "international" coverage. Is there anything that's gone on with Kameda lately that warrants discussion?

[( o Y o )]

Yeah, he had a title fight that he was getting beat down in, so his corner/trainer/father told him to start fouling, which he did, and his fathers words were caught and aired on national TV. He lost the fight, his father has been banned from the sport, and he has held two press conferences (the second one almost in tears) apologizing. The second one his father never showed up for.

I cannot get on the page from work (filtering pricks) but you can probably find some local, translated news about the whole drama here http://mdn.mainichi.jp/sports/

[( o Y o )]

found this:

The Japan Boxing Commission (JBC) announced today (Monday) a suspension of the Kameda family because of their terrible violations of rules and regulations in the WBC flyweight title bout last Thursday (October 11). The previously unbeaten WBC #14 ranked Daiki Kameda (10-1, 7 KOs), 18, failed to win the world throne by a lopsided decision against defending titlist Daisuke Naito, a 33-year-old compatriot. Kameda committed repeated fouls of hitting the thigh, head-butting, thumbing, throwing the champ and lifting him up to throw again. In the twelfth and final session, Daiki was penalized no less than three points by the referee Vic Drakulich. Also, before the eleventh, his father/chief second Shiro and his elder brother/ex-WBA 108-pound champ Koki urged Daiki to hurt the champ with fouls, which was clearly recorded on TV. The JBC suspended Daiki for one year and his father Shiro indefinitely as a cornerman. WBA #1/WBC #3 ranked flyweight contender Koki (16-0, 11 KOs), 20, the most popular and flamboyant boxer in Japan, was severely reprimanded for his unsportsmanlike behavior. The JBC’s announcement at 6:30PM caused a nationwide sensation with a great many TV cameras shooting the proceedings which received tremendously big coverage on all news shows.

Kyoei is also getting a lot of heat for this, and Kameda's father has closed his gym.

[miscmisc]

The Daiki-Naito fight was fucking abhorrent, not just because of Daiki. That was really one of the worst boxing matches I've ever seen, and Naito was rubbish too.

And I just know for a fact that TBS absolutely deserves all the crap. They were always behind the scene, giving a lot of people headaches, swarming like one gigantic pool of parasites. Shameless scumbags.

[( o Y o )]

I had a feeling it would be a shitfest so did not even watch it. I was right ;-)

[miscmisc]

I had a feeling it would be a shitfest so did not even watch it. I was right ;-)

You were wise, my friend, you really were.

I mean, who wants to see a boxer whose trademark is the fucking TURTLE GUARD!? His older brother is a similar deal. Fucking bull fighter with fucking TURTLE GUARD!

18-year-old brat with the worst boxing style imaginable getting so much attention... that's just disrespectful to boxing. Hell, actually I even think Daiki is fine for a 18-year-old, but we (Japan) have so many other deserving champions. Real boxers, man, real boxers. Sakata is also a flyweight champion (WBA), and he would absolutely fuck up that brat.

We had some "colorful" boxers in the past, but guys like Jo Tatsuyoshi, man, they were real boxers with beautiful skills and real drama. He backed up his outside-the-ring antics with actual BOXING.

Nobody cares about the real things anymore. They just can't tell something real when they see it. That's a bloody shame.

[( o Y o )]

We had some "colorful" boxers in the past, but guys like Jo Tatsuyoshi, man, they were real boxers with beautiful skills and real drama. He backed up his outside-the-ring antics with actual BOXING.

That is my biggest disappointment in this I guess. Daiki said he would cut open his own belly if he lost.....yet he looked fit and healthy when squeezing out some tears on TV apologizing for his and his old mans behavior.

Typical Osakian (yes, I just made up that word. lol)

[Global Honored]

So...no singing then?

[( o Y o )]

LOL...none this time.

*warning, bad pun ahead*

But the fat lady has started singing about the whole Kameda family.

[aubtin]

No Kameda discussion in here at all?

To be honest I have no time at all for those little shits.

How big is the hype for the fight in London aubtin? It seems like it's getting a great amount of press and hype...Boxing as a whole seems to be thriving in Europe right now...

There's actually not that much hype at all. Boxing has it's loyal fanbase but it's not nearly as popular as it used to be.

Also I'm sorry to say that Calzaghe just isn't that popular here. The genral public will get far more excited by Hatton, Amir Khan, and even Audley Harrison. And Hatton's only really started to get attention since he went to America.

Don't get me wrong, anyone who gives two shits about boxing are gonna be going crazy for this fight but Calazaghe doesn't really capture the casual's attention which is a real shame.

[US Tomato Can]

I'm a pretty avid boxing fan and get about every title bout and it's undercard internationally. Someone ought to tell Boobs to start a boxing sub forum but then again can that be safely consider kakutougi?

[Soulrise]

Sounds like I'm not missing much when it comes to Kameda...Is Edwin Valero popular in Japan? His last couple fights were in Tokyo.

There's actually not that much hype at all. Boxing has it's loyal fanbase but it's not nearly as popular as it used to be.

Also I'm sorry to say that Calzaghe just isn't that popular here. The genral public will get far more excited by Hatton, Amir Khan, and even Audley Harrison. And Hatton's only really started to get attention since he went to America.

Don't get me wrong, anyone who gives two shits about boxing are gonna be going crazy for this fight but Calazaghe doesn't really capture the casual's attention which is a real shame.

Hmm, I guess my standards regarding what a "thriving" boxing fan base is have fallen. Even if the support in London isn't that great in general the European fan base still seems stronger. All I can say is that NO boxing match in the U.S. can fill a 74,000 seat arena like Calzaghe/Kessler will. The closest we can probably get is when Miguel Cotto or any other Puerto Rican superstar fights in Madison Square Garden.

[US Tomato Can]

Boxing isn't shrinking at all. It's growing in Europe, with the UK and Germany being the biggest areas of growth.

[FieldingMellish]

Also I'm sorry to say that Calzaghe just isn't that popular here. The genral public will get far more excited by Hatton, Amir Khan, and even Audley Harrison. And Hatton's only really started to get attention since he went to America.

Don't get me wrong, anyone who gives two shits about boxing are gonna be going crazy for this fight but Calazaghe doesn't really capture the casual's attention which is a real shame.

Mate, I have to totally disagree on this post.

Calzaghe pulled over 30,000 to his utterly meaningless fight with that goof from the Contender.

Hatton's only started to get attention since breaking the US? Did I imagine all those huge croweds at the MEN Arena for the last several years and the thousands who showed up to see him fight Kostya Tszyu in the middle of the night?

Fraudley Harrison more popular than Calzaghe??? Not a chance. And Amir Khan may be good for a few thousand tickets (like about 5000) but he can't touch Hatton and Calzaghe for ticket sales. Even with all the hype.

[FieldingMellish]

Hmm, I guess my standards regarding what a "thriving" boxing fan base is have fallen. Even if the support in London isn't that great in general the European fan base still seems stronger. All I can say is that NO boxing match in the U.S. can fill a 74,000 seat arena like Calzaghe/Kessler will. The closest we can probably get is when Miguel Cotto or any other Puerto Rican superstar fights in Madison Square Garden.

Calzaghe-Kessler won't sell the place out. I'm predicting 45,000 to 50,000 at the most.

[US Tomato Can]

Really? This doesn't have the marquee value of Contender Kid versus Calzaghe over there?

[Soulrise]

Calzaghe-Kessler won't sell the place out. I'm predicting 45,000 to 50,000 at the most.

I vaguely recall reading a report last week that so far Calzaghe/Kessler has sold 60K tickets and that the promoters are holding out hope for a sell out. Even at 45K - 50K those numbers are still higher than the numbers that the biggest matches in the U.S. could hope to get.

[miscmisc]

Sounds like I'm not missing much when it comes to Kameda...Is Edwin Valero popular in Japan? His last couple fights were in Tokyo.

Despite the Kameda fiasco, boxing isn't doing so well in Japan. Only boxing fans know who those people are. There are seven Japanese/Japan-based champions now (Niida, Hasegawa, Eagle Kyowa, Sakata, Naito, Linares, Valero), but the general public probably only know Naito (and maybe Hasegawa). It's a shame, because they are all real deals. Naito really disappointed us in his fight against Daiki (he choked under the pressure), but you have to admire him for ending Pongsaklek's record-breaking reign like that.

Linares is a serious, serious deal and has lived in Japan for so long that he can even speak Japanese and lives like a regular Japanese dude, but again, only boxing fans know him. No matter how "popular" he is, Teiken Gym is trying to make a huge amount of money off him, especially since DLH is quite interested in him. His younger brother trains at Teiken Gym as well.

Teiken gym is fortunate to have Valero, and although his fights have been televised since he moved to Japan, not many people know him. Unlike Linares, he can't fight in the US, at least not as of today, so the gym needs to promote him some way. They have to make something happen regardless of how well-known he is in Japan, because he is quite an important piece of the jigsaw puzzle that is the current international situation of the Super Featherweight division.

[elgigante]

Valero is gonna get some more exposure over here if the card featuring him and Linares defending their belts goes down as rumoured in mexico

[Soulrise]

Thanks for the breakdown miscmisc. I'm going to have to try to find fights of Niida, Hasegawa, Kyowa, Sakata, and Naito since I haven't heard of any of them before. Do you have full names for any of them to make my search easier? :)

elgigante, which card are you referring to? I didn't think Valero had his next opponent scheduled yet...

[miscmisc]

Thanks for the breakdown miscmisc. I'm going to have to try to find fights of Niida, Hasegawa, Kyowa, Sakata, and Naito since I haven't heard of any of them before. Do you have full names for any of them to make my search easier? :)

Those are all "little guys" though. But since Takehara won the WBA Middleweight belt about 10 years ago, almost all the champions from Japan have been "little guys" anyway. Still, our current champions are really, really, small guys. Hozumi Hasegawa is the "biggest," and he is WBC Bantamweight champion. Takefumi Sakata is WBA Flyweight champion. Daisuke Naito is WBC Flyweight champion. Yutaka Niida is WBA Minimumweight champion. Eagle Kyowa is actually a Thai (who might already have Japanese citizenship, though), and WBC Minimumweight champion.

As you can see, no IBF or WBO, because those two orgs are not officially sanctioned in Japan. Stupid politics, of course.

[Soulrise]

Those are all "little guys" though. But since Takehara won the WBA Middleweight belt about 10 years ago, almost all the champions from Japan have been "little guys" anyway. Still, our current champions are really, really, small guys. Hozumi Hasegawa is the "biggest," and he is WBC Bantamweight champion. Takefumi Sakata is WBA Flyweight champion. Daisuke Naito is WBC Flyweight champion. Yutaka Niida is WBA Minimumweight champion. Eagle Kyowa is actually a Thai (who might already have Japanese citizenship, though), and WBC Minimumweight champion.

As you can see, no IBF or WBO, because those two orgs are not officially sanctioned in Japan. Stupid politics, of course.

I understand that they're all quite small but I thought I'd check em out anyways. I'll look up the names on boxrec to see what I can find. Thanks for the breakdown.

[aubtin]

Mate, I have to totally disagree on this post.

Calzaghe pulled over 30,000 to his utterly meaningless fight with that goof from the Contender.

Hatton's only started to get attention since breaking the US? Did I imagine all those huge croweds at the MEN Arena for the last several years and the thousands who showed up to see him fight Kostya Tszyu in the middle of the night?

Fraudley Harrison more popular than Calzaghe??? Not a chance. And Amir Khan may be good for a few thousand tickets (like about 5000) but he can't touch Hatton and Calzaghe for ticket sales. Even with all the hype.

You're talking about ticket sales, and I totally agree with everything you've said, but I was thinking more about viewing figures, which in turn is due to their populairty outside of the established boxing fans. Hatton or Calzaghe could be fighting my mum and those faithful thousands would still turn out to the MEN or Millenium Stadium.

When Frank Warren was negotiating his Sports Network ITV deal it was off the back of Khan pulling over 6 million for that fight with Kidelan. Those kind of figures are acheived by capturing the interest of the casual boxing fans, which Audley and Khan have proven to do to e greater degree than Calzaghe.

Audley's God awful fight with Williams pulled 7.5 million viewers, where as Calzaghe's packed fight in Cardiff against Manfredo made like 3 million, Khan's last fight in front of a few thousand (mostly his relatives!) was around 3.5 million.

It's not really relevant to apply this to Hatton though as when he was with Warren the Sports Network deal was pretty much with Sky but he's seeing the kind of popularity now with the general public he never had pre-Tszyu fight, I mean he was on Parkinson the other day.

In my post I was referring to popularity among the general public not the aved boxing fans who subscribe to Sky and travel to Cardiff to watch Calzaghe fight. If we're going by the logic of ticket sales then Clinton Woods consistantly packs the Sheffield Arena (10-12,000) but he couldn't bring in the kind of ratings Audley or Khan could.

[Lord Gaul]

Despite the Kameda fiasco, boxing isn't doing so well in Japan. Only boxing fans know who those people are. There are seven Japanese/Japan-based champions now (Niida, Hasegawa, Eagle Kyowa, Sakata, Naito, Linares, Valero), but the general public probably only know Naito (and maybe Hasegawa). It's a shame, because they are all real deals. Naito really disappointed us in his fight against Daiki (he choked under the pressure), but you have to admire him for ending Pongsaklek's record-breaking reign like that.

Linares is a serious, serious deal and has lived in Japan for so long that he can even speak Japanese and lives like a regular Japanese dude, but again, only boxing fans know him. No matter how "popular" he is, Teiken Gym is trying to make a huge amount of money off him, especially since DLH is quite interested in him. His younger brother trains at Teiken Gym as well.

Teiken gym is fortunate to have Valero, and although his fights have been televised since he moved to Japan, not many people know him. Unlike Linares, he can't fight in the US, at least not as of today, so the gym needs to promote him some way. They have to make something happen regardless of how well-known he is in Japan, because he is quite an important piece of the jigsaw puzzle that is the current international situation of the Super Featherweight division.
Nice run down. Linares is a special talent and I love to see him fight. He also has a knack for picking up languages in general. He learned Japanese just in the gym and he said in a interview with Max boxing that he would pick up english in a year and he was well on his way by that point in the interview.

I would like to see Valero commit to a full time trainer. His inability to fight in the US is well documented, but it is just as known that his trainer simply watches him workout on his own, and he rarely listen in the corner. He realies so much on his ability to KO someone and it has yet to fail him in a fight. However he is in the second strongest weight class in the world and I don't see him beating the better guys in that class based on raw skill.

The Daiki win over Pongseklek was special. It was quite the long streak by the thai.

[elgigante]

elgigante, which card are you referring to? I didn't think Valero had his next opponent scheduled yet...

there is a lot of chatter through fightnews and other outlets that linares and valero are going to headline a twin bill in mexico with title defenses. it would be televised on TV Azteca if reports are correct and should go down in the next 2-3 months

[( o Y o )]

this thread has been moved to its new home. I copied the Kameda stuff out to its own thread....if there are any other topics you would like broken out on their own, post a list of the posts (their numbers) and the new thread title you want for it.

Alternatively just keep this as is....

[Global Honored]

Very cool. Boxing gets its own room, or at least gets to move out of the basement. Good timing too, Kessler chance this weekend, Cotto next and Floyd-Hatton coming up. Plenty to discuss...plus Kam's mancrushes get defended as well...Kameda hottness > Masato!!!

[RHK]

i am a huge boxing fan. more so than K-1 or MMA.

i havent been on these forums in a while, glad to see we now have a boxing forum.

[Soulrise]

Thanks oYo and all the other Kakutougi mods! By far this is the best fight sport forum on the Internet!!

[flem1]

Nice to see the sweet science getting some love in this forum...

[gols]

Not having the internet sucks. I only just noticed that this section of the forum existed!