**Spoiler** Mirko, Coleman & Fedor

[( o Y o )]

OK, I have thought, and even said up until 5 minutes ago that Fedor has a better than 50% chance of winning if they ever fight.

After watching Mirko damned ner out-wrestle Coleman, block many shoots and takedown attempts that even Fedor couldn`t do my official stance on this has changed.

I think Mirko is at absolute worst, an even chance. Actually, MPO is that he now has a better than 50% chance of winning it.

Mark coleman has fought both and in his own words about Mirko "he is increadible....I think he`ll be wearing the belt very soon"

[freefightdave]

I have the same thoughts after reading the PbP, and we have have already seen CC avoid being taken down from the clinch by the big and strong Alexander E. He even did a nice toss himself.

[( o Y o )]

Exactly.

Alek tried and failed, and Coleman tried and failed.

Both Fedor and Mirko strike extremely hard so either has the chance on the feet, though Mirko is much more favoured there IMO.

On the ground obviously Fedor is by far the favourite, but only if he can get Mirko there which no one has done since Nog.

[-=[DM]=-]

I've always thought that a mirko vs fedor fight would be unpredictable and could go either way, I wouldn't dare to make a prediction for that one.

I'll give a slight edge to Mirko because I'm a bit worried with Fedor's kicking defense, both low kicks and highkicks. But on the other hand Fedor have shown that he can turn a fight around, like in the fujita and randleman fights. When Mirko wins he dominates the entire fight, I don't think I ever seen him have a come from behind victory.

[freefightdave]

=-']I've always thought that a mirko vs fedor fight would be unpredictable and could go either way, I wouldn't dare to make a prediction for that one.

I'll give a slight edge to Mirko because I'm a bit worried with Fedor's kicking defense, both low kicks and highkicks. But on the other hand Fedor have shown that he can turn a fight around, like in the fujita and randleman fights. When Mirko wins he dominates the entire fight, I don't think I ever seen him have a come from behind victory.
Well, it definately wasn`t a come from behind victory, but Aleksander did do well in the beginning of their fight, with the big hooks and knees.

[-=[DM]=-]

aleksander was just bullrushing crocop, crocop easily avoided most of his attacks. I would say that aleksander did slight better than Sapp against crocop..

[Kamatari]

This fight was worth watching. In the end, the usual match making and subsequent outcomes of those fights deserve every form of agitation and annoyance.

which no one has done since Nog.
Waterman (I don't really count Barnett)? He couldn't do anything while down there though. Fedor relies on upperbody takedowns, but Mirko has shown he can handle many variations. Hopefully, the fight goes down this year.

[( o Y o )]

I guess H20 has put Mirko in the worst position so far, though a year has passed since then and Mirko has shown a lot of improvement.

[( o Y o )]

Waterman (I don't really count Barnett)?

You are right as I just posted below you at the same time. I was just confusing the timing of the two fights.

Josh is a fight I really want to see go a bit further. Josh hurting his shoulder falling on a slipping Mirko isn`t much of a test really. lol

[heckyl]

by the play by play, i am simply shocked. i thought coleman would take him down. i mean, he is mark coleman. his takedown is THE takedown in mma. Crocop seemingly swatted him away like a fly at every attempt and picked him apart. im kinda scared. im starting to lean Crocops way also as far as his match with fedor is concerned. i cant wait for this to happen. fedor wont bitch out.

[( o Y o )]

Fedor has little choice right now as any reason ( management, contracts injuries etc) will be seens as excuses by the supporters now I think.

Which is good as we all want to see this happen sooner rather than later.

[AKA]

yes, it definitely have to happen asap!
I share ur thought about CC, the guy is really good and MMA just became so natural for him.

[( o Y o )]

I just watched this one again and I have to add how damned relaxed Mirko was....even in the wrestling aspect of the fight...

[bbbmarc]

after his randleman fight (the first one), mirko made only 2 mistakes - one out of the ring - forcing his fight against kanehara so soon after being KOed, and in the ring he made also one mistake - that was his rather slopy highkick attempt against barnett, everything else he did in all other fights (oyama, alex, randleman2 and coleman) was perfect - from tactical preparation to realization (props also go to his coaches vlado bozic (boxing) and fabrizio werdum (grappling))

he fights like a perfect human machine

[Grant Ellis]

Aleksandre couldn't throw him (niether could...gasp...Oyama)...Coleman couldn't take him down with a shot...(and Randleman got choked on the shot)

...Igor couldn't trade with him.

Mirko is the new favorite in my opinion.

[roadfighter3]

thing about mirko is that hes prone to making mistakes, two of which cost him his two losses. fedor made one mistake to fujita but quickly rebounded and won less than a minute later. i dont know if mirko can take fedor, but he has the best chance of anyone.

[Grant Ellis]

Exactly.

Alek tried and failed, and Coleman tried and failed.

Both Fedor and Mirko strike extremely hard so either has the chance on the feet, though Mirko is much more favoured there IMO.

On the ground obviously Fedor is by far the favourite, but only if he can get Mirko there which no one has done since Nog.

I think Waterman got him there, as did Barnett (as short as the fight was)

[( o Y o )]

I think Waterman got him there, as did Barnett (as short as the fight was)


LOL...delt with 4 or 5 posts above.

[Grant Ellis]

LOL...delt with 4 or 5 posts above.

:(

I'm still sad one of my MMA heroes got KO'd.

It's only redeeming quality is it showed how Mirko has developed as a fighter and sportsman over the past few years.

[krikit]

It was pretty much a flawless performance by Cro-cop, after the first shoot of Coleman you could just see it was just a matter of time before he was getting put to sleep.

About Fedor, well I think things that are in Fedors favour despite last night is that Fedor is alot faster. And got good transitions from striking to his bodylock takedowns. What Fedor need to do though is actually set-up the takedowns being more aggresive with striking. With Coleman, Cro-Cop could actually be rather safe when he saw he could easily defend the shoot. As Coleman didn't set up it at all and didn't want no part of Cro-cops striking so he could basicly just stay calm, let Coleman waste energy on his shoots, and then wear him down with strikes.

Fedor if he wants win needs to use better timing with his striking and takedowns then Coleman did, which I think he might. Fedor defintly can't afford to get passive on his feet. I doubt Fedor can get him down easily, there's a chance of him getting caught trying to set up a shoot or a clinch, and also there is the question how much Fedor will dominate on ground. Anyways I really hope it happens this year.

I was really impressed to the way Cro-cop handled the clinch situations Coleman had no chance at all of locking him up

[roadfighter3]

It was pretty much a flawless performance by Cro-cop, after the first shoot of Coleman you could just see it was just a matter of time before he was getting put to sleep.

About Fedor, well I think things that are in Fedors favour despite last night is that Fedor is alot faster. And got good transitions from striking to his bodylock takedowns. What Fedor need to do though is actually set-up the takedowns being more aggresive with striking. With Coleman, Cro-Cop could actually be rather safe when he saw he could easily defend the shoot. As Coleman didn't set up it at all and didn't want no part of Cro-cops striking so he could basicly just stay calm, let Coleman waste energy on his shoots, and then wear him down with strikes.

Fedor if he wants win needs to use better timing with his striking and takedowns then Coleman did, which I think he might. Fedor defintly can't afford to get passive on his feet. I doubt Fedor can get him down easily, there's a chance of him getting caught trying to set up a shoot or a clinch, and also there is the question how much Fedor will dominate on ground. Anyways I really hope it happens this year.

I was really impressed to the way Cro-cop handled the clinch situations Coleman had no chance at all of locking him up


thats actually a very good point, about how fedor's takedowns are more advanced because he combines them with strikes to make them unpredictable. everyone says that coleman has the best takedowns in the game, but i'd like to modify that statement to say that he has the best OLD SCHOOL takedowns in the game. at the moment, my opinion is that at HW, fedor has the best takedown techniques.

also, let's not forget that no one in the sport can adapt to different fighting styles as well as fedor. he always comes with the perfect gameplan and executes it. while cro cop will be the toughest fight fedor has ever had, i have no doubt in my mind that fedor will come 100% prepared.

[majorcunningham]

i think the fedor takedown is a lot different to coleman's. it's more of an upper body technique, so it difficult to make that assertion. but yes, it is a good point. who knows, maybe we'll see cro-cop take down fedor!!!

[KickYourHeadOff]

Fedor is bigger fav in my opinion, hes takedowns are clinch takedowns are fast as hell, and he is good at catching low kicks and take people down, like Wand took Mirko down Fedor is better at, Coleman just use power and double leg, Fedor dont do that, all depends on if Mirko can jump out of the ground and defend the subs, Coleman will of course say Mirko is incredible when he get Kod by him, BTW i am pretty sure this is the first fighter Coleman hasent been able to take down

[( o Y o )]

Fedor`s are indeed more sambo/judo/bodylock type takedowns for sure.....as were Alek`s.

Fedor is much better than Alek for sure but the improvemens Mirko has made thus far tell me he will be studying Fedor vs Nog 2 and 3 very carefully and doing what needs doing.

[majorcunningham]

Fedor`s are indeed more sambo/judo/bodylock type takedowns for sure.....as were Alek`s.

Fedor is much better than Alek for sure but the improvemens Mirko has made thus far tell me he will be studying Fedor vs Nog 2 and 3 very carefully and doing what needs doing.


good point about aleks. he and fedor are similar in style (obviously!), so without getting into a whole "x can beat z because x beat someone z lost to" debate, we can use aleks's performance against cro-cop as an indication as to how fedor might match up to cro-cop.

i agree with you. cro-cop is a awful opponent for fedor to face (as may have been demonstrated by fedor's supposed reluctance to face him). fedor has never been paired against an opponent who has been able to outstrike him. this will all change when he faces cro-cop. gven this fact, what is fedor's next option? the takedown? we all know cro-cop's skill in that area dont we! the fact that cro-cop has seemingly improved his grappling skills further will only add to that takedown problem or fedor.

however imo, there may be hope for fedor. to my knowledge werdum is the sole grappling trainer of cro-cop these days, and wedum is no judoka or sambo practicioner. im no bjj expert, but ive not seen many fedor-style takedowns used in a jiu-jitsu match before. my point being, who is gonna prepare cro-cop for what fedor has to throw at him? maybe im thinking about small details too much, and im no grappling expert, but the point seems to hold up to me.

all this and everything else considered, id still pick fedor by some sort of submission.

btw, has anyone noticed in the past couple of months since fedor BEAT nog, that fedor has become less and less of a favourite against cro-cop in the eyes of the internet fans??? just seemed strange on the back of a victory against the nog (roundly considered before NYE to be the number 2 heavyweight in the world), that fedor's status as favourite against cro-cop has dwindled. i think pehaps with all the contract bs, people have decided that fedor is scared of cro-cop. i guess time will tell all....

[freefightdave]

however imo, there may be hope for fedor. to my knowledge werdum is the sole grappling trainer of cro-cop these days, and wedum is no judoka or sambo practicioner. im no bjj expert, but ive not seen many fedor-style takedowns used in a jiu-jitsu match before. my point being, who is gonna prepare cro-cop for what fedor has to throw at him? just a thought that i had.
The same guys who prepared him against Aleksander, I guess. Don`t know who that it though. If you watch some mundials, you`ll see plenty of judo, guess that`s because judo is very popular in Brasil, and wrestling probably isn`t. But I wouldn`t call Fedor`s body lock takedowns pure judo, either. He did do a shoulder-throw vs.Nog, and one against Goodridge, I think. Don`t know the point of this post anymore lol, but I think CC knows what he needs to prepare for.

[majorcunningham]

The same guys who prepared him against Aleksander, I guess. Don`t know who that it though. If you watch some mundials, you`ll see plenty of judo, guess that`s because judo is very popular in Brasil, and wrestling probably isn`t. But I wouldn`t call Fedor`s body lock takedowns pure judo, either. He did do a shoulder-throw vs.Nog, and one against Goodridge, I think. Don`t know the point of this post anymore lol, but I think CC knows what he needs to prepare for.


well, as i mentioned earlier, i bow to the knowledge of others where grappling is concerned, lol. i didnt know judo was popular in brazil, but i thought that wrestling was :) thank for putting me right.

[freefightdave]

I think it`s among the 10 most popular sports there:)

[Baggen]

Mirko was in absolute controll in the entire fight... defended perfectly and mostly it seemed to be easy for him aswell.. I also liked that he didnt gamble with the highkick early but instead fought metodicaly defended takedowns and then moved in for for some striking... only fired a single lowkick if i remember correctly..

Mirkos stocks against fedor defenatly rose on this fight, would be interesting to se mirko on his back today but been a long while since someone put him there.

[KickYourHeadOff]

CroCop watched Fedors fights but Fedor watched CroCops too, he know how he gotta do it, but yeah CroCop is easily his biggest threat, im pretty much 51% to 49 in Fedors favor haha, but Fedor is just so good i cant help for rooting for him

[majorcunningham]

bottom line: it is THE match that fans want to see. to not see it would be a tragedy for the fans, not to mention a betrayal of trust for the fans as DSE have repeatedly promised this fight to the fans. there have been somewhat mitigating circumstances (no-one, epecally DSE wanted fedor to get that cut and spoil the end of the gp), but pride need to make it happen....and very soon, because these guys are at their peak now.

[Grant Ellis]

well, as i mentioned earlier, i bow to the knowledge of others where grappling is concerned, lol. i didnt know judo was popular in brazil, but i thought that wrestling was :) thank for putting me right.


They don't even have a direct translation for "wrestling", the best you can do is say "lutar corpo a corpo" which is "to fight body to body."

They do know what "Grego-romano" or "Greco-Roman" is, but it is hard to find straight wrestlers in Brazil.

The most schools I found were capoeira, followed by TKD, then Judo, then I found Jiu-jitsu.

[Grant Ellis]

Oh, and just for future reference (this is very MMA snob of me, but I have to say it.)

The takedown most wrestlers use is not called a SHOOT.
It is called a SHOT.

"To shoot" is the verb, ie "He is going to shoot for the takedown, He is shooting in for the takedown, he shot in for the takedown... etc"...

The noun is actually simply "shot."
"He has a nice shot", "that shot was lighting quick."

[freefightdave]

Oh, and just for future reference (this is very MMA snob of me, but I have to say it.)

The takedown most wrestlers use is not called a SHOOT.
It is called a SHOT.

"To shoot" is the verb, ie "He is going to shoot for the takedown, He is shooting in for the takedown, he shot in for the takedown... etc"...

The noun is actually simply "shot."
"He has a nice shot", "that shot was lighting quick."
You learn something every day:)

[freefightdave]

I just saw the fight (Coleman-CC). I feel sorry for Coleman, after his last clinch/tackle attempt he just looked like:"Ok I can`t beat you, knock me out whenever you are ready":(

[roadfighter3]

i just saw the fightfor the first time. then i watched it again and again for like 10 times or so. honestly the fight wasn't so great. other than a couple takedown attempts by coleman and mirko defending really well, we didn't see much else. after about 3 and a half minutes of failed takedown attempts, coleman just looked flustered and backed into a corner where mirko just punched him a couple times (coleman didnt even defend really, he just kinda looked away) and then coleman fell.

i was very impressed though by mirko's takedown defense. it certainly is better than chuck's, because mirko uses a combination of crazy reaction speed and power to stop them effectively. however, its important to note that a couple takedowns is really the only thing coleman even tried. fedor isnt so one dimensional, and fedor is a LOT more clever, well rounded, and resourceful. id say its dead even right now at 50 50.