The Badr Hari vs Ruslan Karaev result *spoiler*

[Jofeljoh!]

Well, a lot of controversy so I guess it deserves its own thread.

As far as I could see in almost every angle, Hari wasn't hit very hard anywhere, so it seemed to me he was out of balance, sitting there and just waiting for the break to get up. Karaev was still combinating, but I didn't have the impression that kick was part of the combination as it landed a bit late.

Some said it could be his jaw, or the punch on the temple, but as I said, it wasn't very clear to me that that hit hem that hard. Strange thing is: the kick only landed on his body, was it that hard that he stayed on the ground for so long because he was in so much pain?

Was he waiting for a carding, was he expecting he would get time for recovery? Could explain why he stayed down. He better could have gone up, as far as I can see he was in perfect fighting condition when he was on his feet again.

I don't think Karaev did it sneaky and on purpose, but it wasn't the most gracious move either. Maybe in the heat of combat, like Souwer vs Masato, I don't know.

Opinions?

[tonypol]

i think the jaw and the punch on the temple was the reason that he can't to rise to one's feet.
the kick (when he was down) is seem to be in the body...by the way ,was a other lesson(after P.Graham lesson ) for Badr,that he must talk little ouside the ring and much more in the ring ...we all know he is young and he dont have experience about how he must to act ,but the trainer and his team must teach him.

[Jofeljoh!]

Yeah I don't want to bring his bad boy image to the discussion now, but mainly focus now on what happened in the ring at that moment.

[Dado]

Its confusing.

I have a few questions.

1. Did he go down because of the punch?
2. Did the punch tag him hard enough for him to be dazed and stay down?
3. Did the late kick hit his head or just his chest?
4. Has his jaw sustained damage?
5. What made him look so much in pain?
6. Will he really stop fighting?

[Dado]

And I have seen the fight 10 times now and I still cant answer any of these questions. The slow mo simply doesent show enough.

[fervoltano]

Karaev should will disscualified and Hari win the fight,its a irregular kick,and Botha and Sapp was disscualiffied in 2003 by these actions.

[Jofeljoh!]

I have the same questions, but 6 won't be that difficult to find out. He was just angry, and when you're agnry, you're can say stupid things. But the rest, yeah it's pretty hard to figure it out.

[Dado]

I really hope oyo can answer some of these. Only way I see these questions being answered is through either the fighters or someone close to them.

[Mago]

As for the kick, it happens quite a lot of times, specially in Muay Thai, when a fighter is going down, the other kinda "punish" him even more, probably in the heat of the moment. Buakaw have done this (Shish), Sower with Masato, JWP with Choppa (last low kick when he was already going down for the liver punch), it's always ignored as some kind of "reflex", specially because most of the times those kicks are directed to the body/legs, which looks way less extreme than a head "soccer kick" like some called it. :)

It WASN'T a soccer kick, the movement was a clear low-kick attack, and hit him in chest area. Like I said in the PBP thread, my personnal opinion is that Hari felt some kind of penalty was due, and decided to "look" hurt to show it was a serious attack, and the ref should really penalise Karaev for it (with reason).

For some reason, he took TOO MUCH time to even try to get up, he must have felt something, or didn't hear the count was almost finishing, but the fact is that he got up barely in time and was looking hurt and hesitating, the ref decided to stop it, and the pain face was instantly replaced by the rage.

At this point, I also don't know WHY he fell down in the corner (could be that temple punch), or why he took so long to get up (when it was clear time was running out and the ref wasn't going to give him some break time), but I guess most of it was all his and the ref's confusion.

[Manute]

I didn't see any punch that landed to knock him down even in the slo mo replay. Looked off balance. The kick didn't even look that devastating to keep him down for the 10 count. To me it looked like Badr wanted an excuse and a way out.

[Jofeljoh!]

Hari was controlling the fight so far, he was picking on Karaev with huge lowkicks. I don't think Hari is the kind of fighter who wants the easy way out.

[depechemode]

I will call it NO CONTEST

[heckyl]

Hari was already on the ground. more of a slip from the punch imo, and Ruslan looked down at him before he launched that "lowkick". total shitbag move by Karaev, and a bad call by the refs. keep in mind i wanted Ruslan to win this fight, but not like that. that was shit.

[Blindo]

Yeah, looked really strange. But saying Hari he won't fight any longer makes my day :D
Sorry it was a mistake by Karaev but Hari had the chance to react and he was just laying down crying like a actor and that was bullshit imho.

[heckyl]

yeah Hari should have gotten up for sure. he was egging along there after it happened. but hey, he got kicked illegally as well. they both pretty much ruined what i thought could end up the fight of the night.

[Arie-Kanarie]

Litterally translated from when Hari left back to the dressing room, and said "I never fight again":

"Shall I tell you something. No cancer thing to earn here. no cancer thing to earn. Never, I stop."

"cancer" is synonymous with the word "fuck" in Holland.

[Shinbone]

"cancer" is synonymous with the word "fuck" in Holland.

Yeah right...

That is the most ridiculous comment I have ever heard.

[Arie-Kanarie]

Yeah right...

Isn't it?

How would you translate: "Er is hier geen ene kanker moer te verdienen" then?




does anyone know what Kakuda said about Karaev/Hari in the break before Bernardo came into the ring?

[Shinbone]

It can't be translated because in Holland we're the only people who use diseases to make comments.

It could be translated as grouse, grumble or chew the rag, something like that.

[heckyl]

no chew the rag thing to earn here? no grumble thing to earn here? doesnt sound as good as no fuckin thing to earn here.

[Shinbone]

Yes, but Arie says that cancer and fuck is the same here, and that's not true.
Using the word cancer or kanker in Dutch is the worst term of abuse in Holland.

[heckyl]

yeah i know. i guess im just trying to make sense of what he said.

[Shinbone]

Don't take his words too serious probably he said it in the heat of the moment.

[Jofeljoh!]

Shall we go ontopic, I'm not particularly interested in this swearing discussion?

[BEEF]

I am enjoying this discussion on Dutch swearing :D Maybe I can adopt some if for new insults in the English language!

[Toffa]

The kick didnt look that bad to me, and I couldn't see where any punch landed. But, Badr was doing well up to that point I don't see why he would have stayed down so long, the only conclusion that really comes to me is that the Graham KO still affects him.

[TheDude]

Wasnt the second last punch he landed an elbow?

And Shinbone about the translation, we need to know the meaning of his words, not the exact wording. In this instance cancer=fuck.

[Shinbone]

The dude, he basically said just what Arie-Kanarie mentioned. That he didn't earn money, and he said it very rude. That's all.

[El Presidente]

They should NC the fight and give Aerts the spot ;)

[WOLVES AT THE DOOR]

The kick didnt look that bad to me, and I couldn't see where any punch landed. But, Badr was doing well up to that point I don't see why he would have stayed down so long, the only conclusion that really comes to me is that the Graham KO still affects him.

Or maybe he was kicked in the face

[unicorn]

You seem (with respect) a bit short-sighted with this. Karaev took Musashi's legkicks and still punished his ass for 3 rounds. I don't think that Hadri kicks better than Musashi although perhaps he doesn't kick worse. Ruslan already earned his head. The fate of the match with or without a foul was pretty much obvious. And : Hadri should indeed talk damn lesser. He manages to make a constant mock of himself.

[Lord Gaul]

I think a no contest is the only just decision to make. Hari was winning the fight plain and simply and the kick was after he was on the ground plain and simply. I can't see how they can do anything other then a No contest because there was no winner in this fight.

[unicorn]

Its a qualification match so it can't be ruled NC unless they rematch it. People who watched the slow motion say that actually Hadri's ass was not touching the ground so technically he was still on his feet when the kick started. There are precedents of much worse situations and only the utmostly bad (Botha vs. Abidi, Sapp vs. Remy) who were actually groundfighting fouls were sanctioned.

On a collateral note : Dutch guys are not the single ones using diseases to curse. In Romania, the said expression is used for sending one into his origins, being a metaphor for the way the maternal genitalia look :) :) :)

[( o Y o )]

6. Will he really stop fighting?

I can answer that right now. No, he wont.

As for the rest I`m going to make on thread on all my thoughts from being there in a bit.

[mega_man]

Imo KAraev should had been disqualified. It was an illega strike. ^But Hari seemed to try and take advantege of the all situation which bacf fired him.

[( o Y o )]

Imo KAraev should had been disqualified. It was an illega strike.

Sorry, but it was not technically illegal.

[urdum]

Well it doesnt matter to me if it was illegal or not. Hari isnt in the finals. That does count for me

[Long Fist]

Sorry, but it was not technically illegal.


Hari's butt was in the air wedged between his heels and the corner pole but this is like letting a murderer off the hook because of legal technicality. Letter vs the spirit of the rules ... i'd say Hari was sitting even if his immobilized crouching did not meet K 1 stipulation for formal definition of sitting. Karaev's kick was unsportsmanlike conduct.

I'll vote No Contest

[Dado]

^ Agreed.

I dont think the result wil change.

[( o Y o )]

Karaev's kick was unsportsmanlike conduct.


No doubt. But unsportsmanlike conduct cannot be a reason for a NC. a warning/yellow card, yes. A NC, no. He got the official warning.

On top of that Hari is the one K-1 that can never complain about sportsmanship. Had it have happened to someone else, then perhaps they may have been a bit stricter with Ruslan. You make your bed, you sleep in it.

[Toffa]

Or maybe he was kicked in the face

Well, he wasn't.

[sparkles]

Sorry, but it was not technically illegal.

Since Hari his gloves didn't touch the ground before the kick was delivered, he wasn't down technically. If that is the case, there is no reason at all to make it a NC. The rules were not broken, even though it was not an act of sportmanship. That's the bottomline.

[( o Y o )]

Since Hari his gloves didn't touch the ground before the kick was delivered, he wasn't down technically. If that is the case, there is no reason at all to make it a NC. The rules were not broken, even though it was not an act of sportmanship. That's the bottomline.

That is what I have been saying. His butt, knees, elbows, gloves, head didn`t touch so it is impossible to make it a NC.