The best.... in Max [Archive]

Razor Bump

29th September 2006, 07:16 AM

El Presidente

29th September 2006, 07:22 AM

Buakaw has the best jaw it seems as well... and all round conditioning.

Remigius has the best workrate (most aggressive)

Kraus had the best mullet

Sudoraba

29th September 2006, 09:31 AM

The Yodsenklai one is just an assumption as far as it goes right now. We don't really know how he's adapted in MAX.

Kamatari

29th September 2006, 09:36 AM

Yodsanklai did kick the crap out of Amrani but the way he leaned forward made him a stationary target for Amrani whenever he threw anything. And needless to say, Yodsanklai nearly prevented him from showing any offensive ability.

Besides I think that stylistically Buakaw has the "purest" Muay Thai, whatever that means.

Kamatari

29th September 2006, 09:39 AM

Sato has the highest workrate I reckon (although the Kraus fight was saddening). Souwer could give him a run for his money, but he's usually caught napping in the first round.

Kobayashi

29th September 2006, 02:03 PM

Buakaw is the best fighter and most technical athlete.

Virgil is the best boxer.

Zambidis is the biggest power puncher.

Yodsenklai has the purest Muay Thai

Andy Souwer/Masato (take your pick) is the most well rounded fighter

Buakaw is the best kicker

Your opinions gentleman

Agreed with all, 'cept I don't know purest Muay Thai means and Buakaw definitely isn't the most technical, his punching and kicking technique is flawed in many aspects.

Best technique - Masato, Souwer.

Best stamina - Buakaw.

Best speed - Masato.

Best knees - Buakaw.

Most heart - Masato.

Tommy_Arashikage

29th September 2006, 03:57 PM

Kobayashi

30th September 2006, 12:31 AM

I'm going to put in a word for Kraus for best jaw. Sure Buakaw has only been knocked down once, but his defense is so good he hardly ever gets hit anyway. Kraus has been hit HARD by several knees and punches and always gets up, maybe not completely there, but he gets up.

When Kraus gets hit clean, he goes down and against Masato and Zambidis--he didn't get up. When Buakaw gets hit clean... well, nothing happens. Buakaw definitely has the best chin in MAX at this stage.

Lord Gaul

30th September 2006, 05:56 AM

I like the list, but you may be jumping the gun on the Yod performance. I will need to see him make another card before I go crazy about his potential. For all I know he is one and done like Farid V.

Other then that I like your list and I also agree with Kobayashi's.

Razor Bump

30th September 2006, 06:57 AM

Fortunatley I've seen Yod in more than just the K-1 ring. What does pure Muay Thai stylist mean....... Muay Thai has certain techniques that..... okay let me make it simple..... Tony Ja, Jackie Chan, Jet Li and even Bruce Lee would do movie's and fight with their style. For instance.... Tony Ja uses a lot of old Thai techniqes (hanuman thawai waen) or in lamen terms a double fist technique. Jackie would use certain animal styles eagle and tiger claw specific kung fu techniques, Bruce would tend to use a lot of Wing Tsun and even incorporate Tae Kwon Do in some of his old films. Well you can see their technique and see that they are sticking to the one style as opposed to watching a kick boxer mix boxing and muay thai and a little Dutch this and a little that. Yod still has a pure Muay Thai style though he has power in his hands I think his style is still strictly Muay Thai even more so than Buakaw who is starting to mix boxing in with his abilities.

Tommy_Arashikage

1st October 2006, 04:03 AM

When Kraus gets hit clean, he goes down and against Masato and Zambidis--he didn't get up. When Buakaw gets hit clean... well, nothing happens. Buakaw definitely has the best chin in MAX at this stage.

He beat the count against Masato but the ref waved it off, I can't remember what happened against Zambidis, I just know he got hammered by an overhand right.

Kobayashi

1st October 2006, 12:08 PM

He beat the count against Masato but the ref waved it off, I can't remember what happened against Zambidis, I just know he got hammered by an overhand right.

Same deal as the Masato fight, his body got up but his mind didn't. I still don't think this puts him anywhere near the best jaw mark. It remains Buakaw and Masato as neither have been put down for more than a split second.

depechemode

1st October 2006, 07:39 PM

I dont think that Fairtex is so great I saw the fight against Kamal and it was not so impressive

I can see that everyone islooking for someone who can beat Buakaw but for me Buakaw is still the best yet

Kobayashi

1st October 2006, 10:23 PM

I agree, Yodsanklai is awesome but Buakaw would maul him. Buakaw is untouchable right now.

Sudoraba

2nd October 2006, 02:28 PM

Same deal as the Masato fight, his body got up but his mind didn't. I still don't think this puts him anywhere near the best jaw mark. It remains Buakaw and Masato as neither have been put down for more than a split second.

to be fair what number you get up on during the count is by no means an accurate estimation of your chin. Fighters are usually coached that if they are knocked down to stay for 6 or so to get a chance to recover from their damage before getting up, making the most of the count as a recovery period. There is also the case of the fighter who tries to get up as quickly as possible to pass the shot off as a slip. But that being said dealing with the knockdown is its own set of strategies too.

Sudoraba

2nd October 2006, 02:29 PM

Agreed with all, 'cept I don't know purest Muay Thai means and Buakaw definitely isn't the most technical, his punching and kicking technique is flawed in many aspects.

out of curiousity what do you find flawed in Buakaw's kicking?

Kobayashi

2nd October 2006, 10:37 PM

to be fair what number you get up on during the count is by no means an accurate estimation of your chin. Fighters are usually coached that if they are knocked down to stay for 6 or so to get a chance to recover from their damage before getting up, making the most of the count as a recovery period. There is also the case of the fighter who tries to get up as quickly as possible to pass the shot off as a slip. But that being said dealing with the knockdown is its own set of strategies too.

Yeah, but more often than not it's to do with the fact that they're incapable of getting up instantly. I personally think this is related to one's chin and if you don't agree, that's fine. In the instances I was refering to with Buakaw and Masato, neither of them seemed at all groggy upon returning to their feet (instantly).

Kobayashi

2nd October 2006, 10:40 PM

out of curiousity what do you find flawed in Buakaw's kicking?

The lower half of Buakaw's kicking is superb, although the upper half is a mess, even on pads sometimes--his hand placement is awful and he may (or may not) pay the price later in his career for it. Also, when he throws his low-kicks (rare) he almost always kicks in an upward fashion without any hip rotation. And another little thing is that his leg is sometimes fully extended before impact, but I guess that's the case with many fighters. Don't know about you, but I put these under the technique category. These faults don't stop him at all from being the most effective kicker in MAX/the world though, but I put effectiveness in a different category from technique. I think we had a discussion about a similar topic a while back and couldn't come to an agreement because your definition of technichal was "using many techniques effectively" whilst my definition of technical was throwing your strikes with superb technique--as you would on the pads. Albert Kraus, for example, has excellent form on the pads and then loses a huge % of it in a fight (he can't even seem to throw a jab without dropping his right hand). Masato and Souwer, however, are almost as technically sound in a fight as they are on the pads (thus me putting them under the 'Best Technique' category). Buakaw's hand-dropping occurs as much during his padwork as it does in his fights, so technique is clearly not a big part of his training.

Razor Bump

6th October 2006, 04:38 AM

I have to disagree with a flawed kicking style for Buakaw. I have always stated there are a million ways to throw a round house choose one. Most Muay Thai specialist stand with a flat foot and not all of them rotate on the ball of their foot. They tend to step across the opponents body to generate more power. I've seen upward and downward chopping which is still just like cutting down a tree and the concept works with both.

I dont think Yod is better than Buakaw that kind of came out of left field sounding like an attempt to defend Buakaw who needs no defending at all. Yod is very accomplished and deserves his accolades (however you spell it).

I still state Buakaw is the best until someone can prove him wrong without any judges help.

Kobayashi

6th October 2006, 09:40 AM

I also agree that there are many ways to throw a round kick and that there isn't a superior way as some ways are faster, some ways are safer, some ways are more powerful, etc. However, when it comes to hand placement, I believe there are far less variables and that no guard whilst kicking has no advantages over a tight solid guard as Masato demonstrates over 90% of the time. For this reason, I'd say Masato has superior kicking technique--but that doesn't make his kicks faster, more powerful or more effective at kicking--it does, however, leave him far less vulnerable to a counter strike when he's kicking.

Razor Bump

8th October 2006, 02:37 AM

I know Masato has a nice style and good protection.

I would even say that, he has the best kick style. As Japanese kick has some modifications that are different from Muay Thai. He is the best Japanese kick fighter in the business after all.

Kamatari

8th October 2006, 08:37 AM

He is the best Japanese kick fighter in the business after all.
P4P there are fighters in the lower divisions that should be ranked ahead. Japan's best fighters compete at bantam and lightweight. I think Masato is great against European and dare I say "Dutch" style fighters which is why he has the edge over every single Japanese fighter at super-welter but I think it's more the domestic talent pool that allows him to stand out than his skills. And everyone knows the guy is a phenomenal fighter anyway.

virgil

10th October 2006, 11:29 AM

Just came across this thread recently .Thought I'd ad one more.Having faced Buakaw & Sato who throw really good knees I'd have to day the best knee striker I have faced is without a doubt Shibin Tea.Everytime he landed one on me I honestly felt like thowing up...they were that powerful.

Kobayashi

10th October 2006, 12:11 PM

Thanks for the insight Virgil, very interesting.

Kamatari

10th October 2006, 12:22 PM

And for clarification that's Shinbi Taewoong A.K.A. Thopadak.

His knee KO at the last Khan where Virgil beat Lim was sweet.

Razor Bump

11th October 2006, 11:50 AM

When you fought him...... I was nervous for you lol. He is a monster, but the beast came out of you when you let the hands go on his face. Thought they robbed you of a knockdown in that fight too.

I would like to see them put Masato in the Japanese tournament and sprout some of this young talent to the board with him again.