Your thoughts about Schilt-Choi???

[AKA]

About Sem:
*It seems that fighting a giant like him was a big matter, pretty normal when its the first time of ur career u fight a taller guy than urself!
*this first observation explain why two of his best weapons were not effective that day: the knees (already 3/4 fucked by the one knee rules) and the deadly front kick were obviously not effective in that fight.
*Sem did fight a lot to much these last weeks and he was surely not at 100%.... I guess that without the K1-Holland fight, it would have been very different!
*Sem was more "active", I dont dont the word in english but he was like more motivated to go forward or to try to etc....More offensive maybe, show more motivation.

About Choi:
*Height and weight has been a huge advantage as usual, but more this time imho. Exactly like vs Sapp! When u fight a guy taller and heavier its always difficult, when its the first time it happens in ur life...damn!
*Pretty sloppy, unhorthodox but still effective boxing skills. He scored some nice shot.
*No kicks at all
*Amazing how he did block most of Sem low kick, very very good strategy imho.
*Ends of Rd 1 and 2 were nice, he scored a lot especially in judges opinion!
*Always nice to fight at home, special mention for the Korean audience who seems to be awesome

The fight:
Rd1: Sem is leading with his kicks and at 2 minutes it deserve a 10-9 for Sem, but the end of Choi was more active and scored some good shot....
I'll gave a 10-10

Rd2: Pretty even round, Sem is less dominant than in rd1 in my eyes but still more active and with more cleans shot. But at the end of the round Choi did scored some nice shot and his agression did pay to me
I give 10-10

Rd3: Sem clearly won it....more clean shot at all!
10-9 for Sem.

For me its a 30-29 for Sem but I will not cry a river if they give a 29-29 and scored one of the 2 first rd in Choi's favor. But THERE IS NO WAY THAT CHOI WON!!!
What was the score card?

I think that this fight was more close than JLB-Remy....

[( o Y o )]

I only have the first 2 rounds, and have rewatched them and was surprised to be honest. I expected them to confirm Sem as the winner, but I`d probably call them even, and could see someone perhaps giving a slight edge of round 2 to Choi for the way it ended.

The official scores I don`t know, but it was a split decision. It gets NO closer than a split, and i seems most people that have watched it a few times are saying it was damned close.

I suspect though there are going to be a lot of people using this fight to back up their opinion that Sem is winning due to his height advantage rather than skills.

[xavion]

Looks like this thread was created just after I posted my thoughts in the pbp thread. Copied from the other thread:


Well I just watched a replay of the Schilt/Choi fight. Watching it live I thought Schilt edged it out, but now I change my judgment.... I'd call it a definite draw. .. Schilt was pumping out the low kicks and some middle kicks all fight, but Choi actually checked or blocked the vast majority of them.

...IMO it's still home-cooking to say that Choi won outright though >_<

[AKA]

I suspect though there are going to be a lot of people using this fight to back up their opinion that Sem is winning due to his height advantage rather than skills.
Its pretty stupid imho.... His skills comes from his size so.....
But if they mean that Schilt is not technical and that his force is is height+weight: off course they are right, but its part of this sports, its not something illegal or tricky to be big!
But yes, Sem advantage is at 90% his size with deadly knees+front kick (never seen such painful front kick a random human will break his foot with that kind of front kick!!!)

[AKA]

Looks like this thread was created just after I posted my thoughts in the pbp thread. Copied from the other thread:


Well I just watched a replay of the Schilt/Choi fight. Watching it live I thought Schilt edged it out, but now I change my judgment.... I'd call it a definite draw. .. Schilt was pumping out the low kicks and some middle kicks all fight, but Choi actually checked or blocked the vast majority of them.

...IMO it's still home-cooking to say that Choi won outright though >_<
So, u see a draw?

[xavion]

So, u see a draw?

Yes.

[Kamatari]

Copy 'n paste:

As bad as this was, Sem didn't exactly impress me either. I knew that he couldn't finish Choi but still. Choi's not a great kickboxer and he survived against Remy and Schilt now. LOL The Predator gave him his toughest fight.

I mean he almost fought on to a draw! That's insane.
I really wasn't impressed with that fight and the competitors in it. Schilt was pretty much wasting his time fighting the way he did and Choi's offence looked terrible as usual as he whiffed on a billion shots. At least he blocked some kicks, which shows a minor improvement.

He couldn't bully Choi around and you'd expect him to change his gameplan but he kept doing the same thing. And I don't think it's that hard to look (marginally) better against someone with even less mobility than you.
I think people are blinded by their dislike for Choi, same people probably also cried when Schilt won the GP.

"Of course, Choi is big but against big guys I can fight more freely," said Schilt. "Even if he is a little taller than I am, I have more skills, stamina and motivation, and I will hit him harder."
Words from Schilt himself, ouch.

Was a predictable disappointment, but I couldn't help but watch it anyway.

[Kamatari]

Still Choi's one tough dude and deserves respect to a certain extent. He was supposed to go down early and well didn't.

[AKA]

I'm not sure that Schilt was able to fight in another way!
Choi blocking the low kicks was one of the key, Sem is slow and dont know to kick and turn around or to throw combos and step back....but he did counter Choi several times with "cleans shot", it was probably not enough and judges dont see that most of Choi shot were hitting "air".

[Kamatari]

I'm not sure that Schilt was able to fight in another way!
Choi blocking the low kicks was one of the key, Sem is slow and dont know to kick and turn around or to throw combos and step back....but he did counter Choi several times with "cleans shot", it was probably not enough and judges dont see that most of Choi shot were hitting "air".
He could have gone buckwild on him like Terkay did. Sure, Choi could have won an exchange and downed him but he wasn't going to win convincingly this way and it became painfully obvious.

It would be funny if Choi won the GP... Right? You guys? ;-P

[Toffa]

Ridiculous decision, I could not believe it, totally dumbfounded when I heard the decision. Most of the above posts are regarding Schilt's actions, how he didn't do enough to win, but what on earth did Choi do? He did absolutely nothing, there is no way a proper, professional and unbias judge could award him the decision. Semmy was pumping out low kicks and was successful with his jabs, Choi landed a Bob Sapp style hammerfist at the end of round 2...

[unicorn]

People, I think that a) we can't ask from Choy more than he can b) same applies for Schilt. I didn't see the match, but always Nr 1 fighting has an emotional charge upon which doesn't always "land well". There were much more technical and awarded fighters who in day x under circumstances y did a mess of a match (Hoost vs. Filho, Hoost knowing Filho is dangerous, Filho anticipating the same and both staring at eachother if I am not mistaking for kinda 40"). I just gave an example. If Schilt was treated unfair, ultimately Choi can't survive to the top merely hoping that he will have pampering for the whole next. If Choi was treated actually fair and could be awarded the victory, he will be the next under a tremendous pressure not to disappoint (Sapp example after winning twice on Hoost is a perfect example of how Choi can feel). So let's not over-react. Time will certainly tell.

[HolyRamenEmpire]

I haven't seen the fight yet. Slept through while it aired on TV. Agh. Just read the pbp here. And as I wrote, Choi getting the #1 spot is okay. Totally fine. I think the #1 ranking can be occupied by a so-to-speak weakish chap as long as it remains a short reign. Choi will probably be a transitional champ. We can now get some good movement at that spot. I look forward to who gets to fight Choi first. Would be funny if the predator re-matched Choi and won, lol.

[Bon-2]

Ridiculous decision, I could not believe it, totally dumbfounded when I heard the decision. Most of the above posts are regarding Schilt's actions, how he didn't do enough to win, but what on earth did Choi do? He did absolutely nothing, there is no way a proper, professional and unbias judge could award him the decision. Semmy was pumping out low kicks and was successful with his jabs, Choi landed a Bob Sapp style hammerfist at the end of round 2...
Exactly. I was totally surprised when they raised Choi's arm. I'm even going as far as to say that this decision should be reversed as well, like the JLB-Remy decision.
There was just no way, I repeat no way, that Choi won that fight...

[Arie-Kanarie]

I was very disappointed by both of the fighters, and actually neither of them deserved a win...

[sparkles]

Were this 3 Korean judges?

Anyway, this fight confirms the fact that if Schilt would have a normal height ( let's say 185 cm) he would easily get KTFO. The only skill you need is know how to punch and you will have in on the mat. The Ignashov fight was no fluke but it was hard reality. Ignashov is very tall and knows how to punch.

[AKA]

Ridiculous decision, I could not believe it, totally dumbfounded when I heard the decision. Most of the above posts are regarding Schilt's actions, how he didn't do enough to win, but what on earth did Choi do? He did absolutely nothing, there is no way a proper, professional and unbias judge could award him the decision. Semmy was pumping out low kicks and was successful with his jabs, Choi landed a Bob Sapp style hammerfist at the end of round 2...

I think that Choi did well with his skills, I still give the dec to Sem but a very close one.
I dont agree with ur "absolutely nothing"! Choi did his match and go forward with his punch and connect some good ones!

[ArtOfWar]

Anyway, this fight confirms the fact that if Schilt would have a normal height ( let's say 185 cm) he would easily get KTFO. The only skill you need is know how to punch and you will have in on the mat. The Ignashov fight was no fluke but it was hard reality. Ignashov is very tall and knows how to punch.


My thoughts exactly. Not to bash on Semmy or anything, but having said stuff like: "Choi has no technique", "His face will look different depending on the number of punches he takes", he hardly performed to the caliber expected of him.

I call the fight either a draw or for Choi simply because of his flurries and the end of round 2. Choi really surprised me, I thought he was just a big freak, but to actually perform this well against a A class kick boxer...hats off.

[AKA]

My thoughts exactly. Not to bash on Semmy or anything, but having said stuff like: "Choi has no technique", "His face will look different depending on the number of punches he takes", he hardly performed to the caliber expected of him.

I call the fight either a draw or for Choi simply because of his flurries and the end of round 2. Choi really surprised me, I thought he was just a big freak, but to actually perform this well against a A class kick boxer...hats off.
idem, I'm really surprised!
But "Giants" are probably not the kind of "good opponant" for Sem!

[( o Y o )]

Sem had a pretty decent blood nose happening in round 2, and a swollen welt on one side and slight black eye on the other so choi could not have done "nothing"

[( o Y o )]

Anyway, this fight confirms the fact that if Schilt would have a normal height ( let's say 185 cm) he would easily get KTFO. The only skill you need is know how to punch and you will have in on the mat. The Ignashov fight was no fluke but it was hard reality. Ignashov is very tall and knows how to punch.

I think saying anyone would beat him if smaller ois going way too far, but his weakness is surely people near his height as he has faced three of them, been KO'd by one, knocked down by one, and looked like shit against one. Officially he is 1-2 against tall guys.

[Jofeljoh!]

Won from Nortje and Silva, lost from Choi, and if you count Iggy as one of them 'near his height', then you come to 2-2 :)

but then again, who would count Silva anyway ;)

[Mago]

I wouldnt say Ignashov is that near Shcilt's height (almost 20 cm differance, if I remember), he looked really small compared to the dutch... But yes, I reckon Ignashov is the tallest fighter between those considered true K1 elite, the one who has been assigned by a good number of fans with the responsability of protecting K1's circuit from the evil giant champion! :) After watching the fight, all I can say is that this is one of those cases in which the judges give the fight to the home guy because they simply think the challenger didn't do enough to score a clear win. Choi didn't do ANYTHING significant in the whole fight, apart from that odd and illegal flurry in the end of the second, wehn he chased an off-balance Shcilt and scored some cheap shots from his back.

Shcilt had the superiority but seemed extremely tired, everything he trhew was looking slow, heavy and predictable. He surely felt the schedule, I believe. Considering his physical situation, his kicks were decent at best, Choi was blocking the outside low kicks but he could easily exploit counter low kicks but seemed too tired to avoid punches and throw the kicks at the same time (need a lot of reflexes) and only did those a few times. His punches were the same, but in this area he showed his true weakness - his head defense. Shcilt just cant help but use his hands in a VERY long defense line, trying to manually prevent the opponents arms to complete the punchs. Obviously this works well on a guy like Sefo - you just push him down and he wont possibily hit you with his short arms. But Choi was as tall as Shcilt and by throwing wild hooks he could easily avoid his open defense and hit his head in an unconfortable number of ways and times.

Obviously, Shilt did more than enough to win, Choi's merit was to never panic and survive pretty much unfased in a fight with the K1 champ. But that's ALL. It as a clear robbery to me, Schilt still don't get K1's affection and respect, and probaly never will unless he sticks around for a long time as a winner.

[( o Y o )]

but then again, who would count Silva anyway ;)

That was the theory I was working on. lol

[xavion]

Choi didn't do ANYTHING significant in the whole fight, apart from that odd and illegal flurry in the end of the second, wehn he chased an off-balance Shcilt and scored some cheap shots from his back.

I have to disagree with your analysis of the end of the second round. At the end of the round (about 6 seconds left), Schilt stumbles a bit and backs into the Red corner. Choi then lands a pretty solid left hook... it seems Schilt is affected by the hook, turns his back, and turtles up in the corner. Choi got a bit carried away when he did his "Sapp hammer fist", but I don't think turning your back to your opponent and turtling up in a corner to avoid more hits to your head is legal either. Schilt did get out of that position fairly quickly, which was good... if he stayed like that a couple of seconds longer a standing 8 would have been appropriate IMHO.

[Toffa]

I have to disagree with your analysis of the end of the second round. At the end of the round (about 6 seconds left), Schilt stumbles a bit and backs into the Red corner. Choi then lands a pretty solid left hook... it seems Schilt is affected by the hook, turns his back, and turtles up in the corner. Choi got a bit carried away when he did his "Sapp hammer fist", but I don't think turning your back to your opponent and turtling up in a corner to avoid more hits to your head is legal either. Schilt did get out of that position fairly quickly, which was good... if he stayed like that a couple of seconds longer a standing 8 would have been appropriate IMHO.

I don't buy that, Choi had just propelled Schilt into the corner, and while under this momentum, Schilt had avoided a hook which turned him around. This leads on to another point.

Choi is not the same size as Schilt, Choi is significantly taller and 40 kg heavier, its just not accurate to say they are the same size. Schilt has never faced someone the size of Choi, it was just a bad style match up for him. In the same way Nortje had some success against Schilt because of Schilt's size. Nortje normally loses because his opponent is too mobile to be hit with his punches, which have definite KO power. Schilt is a top fighter but some styles just make fighters look bad, like Schilt against Sefo.

[xavion]

I don't buy that, Choi had just propelled Schilt into the corner, and while under this momentum, Schilt had avoided a hook which turned him around. This leads on to another point.


The slow motion replays that played between Rds 2 and 3 clearly show the hook landing. I'm not fluent in Japanese but the Japanese commentators seemed to think so as well.

I agree with the second part of your post.

[Dado]

I wouldnt say Ignashov is that near Shcilt's height (almost 20 cm differance, if I remember), he looked really small compared to the dutch...

Not really, Ignashov looked pretty tall next to Schilt, his eyes were around the chin of Schilt.

That was a bad loss for Schilt, Ignashov clobbered him for one round before knocking him out with a knee to the head.

Man I wish he could be the same again.....

As for Choi vs Schilt, I saw a glimpse and Schilt seemed uneffective with his kicks, Choi was blocking the majority of them and got Sem hard with a punch at one stage.

[Powka]

Well, what can I say... K-1 is becoming circus. First JLB and Bonjasky, now this. And it's nearly not the end. Thay bought Sakuraba for raise their ratings, but with stuff like this even Sakuraba will be helpless.

[AKA]

Well, what can I say... K-1 is becoming circus. First JLB and Bonjasky, now this. And it's nearly not the end. Thay bought Sakuraba for raise their ratings, but with stuff like this even Sakuraba will be helpless.

How do u score the fight?

Attn everybody: pleaz give ur score card!

[Shinbone]

The Schilt haters must have a glorious day.

IMHO, Schilt fought not well. His boxing looks awfull and he looked slow as well. Choi blocked those kicks pretty well, but I haven't seen something that comes close to kickboxing. To me it looks Schilt wasn't giving his all.

Hopes this is a wise lesson for him, you can't fight every two weeks!

If you fight the current k-1 champion, you should win very convincingly. It the fight is very close make it a draw, but no way hand the decesion to the challanger.

[Dado]

When Semmy fights normal sized opponents he doesent really need to be fleet footed and agile, although he does have a high workrate he is mostly just using his size to close the distance and land his front kicks, arm kicks and knees.

Against Choi there wasnt much he could have done really, his attacks lacked any sting and his kicks really werent set up well as Choi was blocking them.

[CentralKickboxing.Org]

It is a game of hitting and I didn't see Choi getting the hits. It was like watching a 218cm Satake out there just missing with the gloves and belting the opponent with the bicep.