I will fighting in my first judo tournament this weekend.

[Striker & Grappler]

I have about 13 months of jiu-jitsu training. I have competed in numerous submission/jiu jitsu tournaments. I've never done judo.

I am basically doing it to improve my takedowns, or takedown defense, which will carry over to submission/mma competions.

To all the judoka here, what should I expect, being that I'm a jiu jitsu practicioner?

[Striker & Grappler]

Well this is what happened in a nutshell:

In the first match, I was thrown 2 times, but only Yukos were given as my opponent gave me his back, so I started working for chokes.

http://tinypic.com/drfbqr.jpg

http://tinypic.com/drfbwj.jpg

http://tinypic.com/drfbyb.jpg


I get swept, but reverse it and get full mount on the judoka. I hold the position for 25 seconds and get the ippon.

http://tinypic.com/drfdaw.jpg

http://tinypic.com/drfdkg.jpg

[Striker & Grappler]

2nd match:

I sqaure off and get thrown

http://tinypic.com/drfdxw.jpg

http://tinypic.com/drfe3k.jpg

I think he wins a Yoku but I slip away and reverse him and take his back. He turtles up and I put the hooks in and yank him backwards and get back mount with him facing upwards. He belly downs and I'm working the rear naked.

Then the ref penalizes me for cross facing or something(I'm still not sure what I did--it's all legal in submission wrestling) and stands us up.

He hits and inside leg sweep and we go down again.

http://tinypic.com/drfekz.jpg

http://tinypic.com/drfes5.jpg

but once again I slip away, try to take his back, and he ends up in my guard.

http://tinypic.com/drff2s.jpg

http://tinypic.com/drff4m.jpg

http://tinypic.com/drfgg0.jpg

[Striker & Grappler]

The bad news is I am down by two takedowns and a penalty. The good news is I have guard and I know what to do with it. The judoka tries to disengage from the ground fight (as by this time word had gotten around I was a BJJ practicioner), but I grab his sleeves and work a triangle and sink it DEEPLY.

http://tinypic.com/drfgyb.jpg

http://tinypic.com/drfh1l.jpg

http://tinypic.com/drfh3o.jpg

[Striker & Grappler]

http://tinypic.com/drfhc2.jpg

http://tinypic.com/drfhgz.jpg

http://tinypic.com/drfhi9.jpg




He tries to pull out but can't. I have the triangle locked in completely, and have his arm passed to the side. He is going to either nap or tap when the friggin ref yells "Matte!!!" and STANDS US UP!!!!!

http://tinypic.com/drfhjt.jpg



I wasn't a happy camper. Anyway the judoka hits me with another throw and ends up winning first place.

http://tinypic.com/drfi81.jpg



I settle for second, but after the match he comes up and tells me "1 more second and I would have passed out."

Oh well.

[Striker & Grappler]

Notes:

1. Judo is fun as hell!

2. A jiu jitsu guy has to be explosive on the ground and get the sub if he is outmatched in the stand up department because the Judo community as a collective is more worried about the aesthetically pleasing uchi-mata-esque throws and sweeps rather than who is the better over all grappler.

No ground exchange lasted longer than 10-15 seconds. The judoka at the tournement said even that was longer than normal.

3. To any submission/jiu jitsu fighters wanting to go to a judo comp---don't let them know you don't do Judo. I think the ref who stopped my second match didn't want a jiu jitsu guy with poor judo winning a judo tournament.

[( o Y o )]

Congrats on second place. Seems we don`t have many judoka here yet that could have forewarned you about the way refs may look at a BJJ fighter there, but it seems you did pretty well anyway.

[El Presidente]

Nice one. Congrats.

I think I should start getting back into Judo comps. Forgot the thrill of it.

[Striker & Grappler]

Yeah it was fun.

It was a small tournament, but even though I'm still a BJJ whitebelt, I felt extremely comfortable doing the ne-waza(ground fighting) with any of them, and I dominated. I am not bragging though(as I get owned in my jiu jitsu class all the time).

It is just very interesting seeing as how much more evolved ground fighting is in BJJ. I couldn't imagine what it would be like fighting a BJJ blackbelt with a judo black belt level of throws!

[HolyRamenEmpire]

I've done judo and bjj for several years. I just noticed that your thread was about a judo tournament :P

What you should expect in further tournaments...

(1) If you haven't trained much judo, they'll obviously be better at judo throws... So, avoid getting ipponed, while avoid being too warned (which takes point away).

(2) You want to get the guy to fail a throw, and get him to hit his stomach down, so as to work on the ground. Once he gets used to this pattern, he may work on ouchigari and kouchigari (like Fedor, Kharitonov, and Randy). You've got to keep your arms tight in. Good kumite, low base.

(3) You need to think of the way to get him to the ground without getting warned. Fake a throw. Wrestling/sambo style takedowns are great. Refer to clips of Georgian and any Slavic judo fighters. They're good reference. Even Iranian fighters have well incorporated wrestling into judo. Anyways, have in mind several ways to do an okay throw attempt that will at least safely get you to the ground.

(4) You can't do a guillotine and I have doubts about a triangle. I think you can't do moves that involve choking the opponent with your legs. They may let you through if the ref doesn't know bjj well, or if they consider your triangle as an attempt to do an armbar. Also, if your opponent lifts you up while you are attemtping triangle or any such moves, they'll usually restart standing. In judo, if you are inactive on ground for 2 to 5 seconds, or if the guy lifts you up (unless he's tapping or getting subbed by an armbar), the ref will restart you.

(5) Judo guys can be real good at holding you down. Don't underestimate their ability to do that. And once they get you down, they just need to keep that position for 20 or 25 secs for you to lose. So, don't get too lazy on your back. They don't need to look for a sub.

(6) And finally, there is little point winning by bjj in judo tournaments if your goal is work on your judo and takedowns. In the future, you may want to focus on your standing. If you don't want to get fully into judo because you want to make transition to mma, then work on the russian judo system, similar to sambo and wrestling. In the last world tournament, the Georgians showed great skills in that domain. Iran and Russia too. Check them out if you have chance.

(7) Watch out for the injuries :) Have a good ukemi. That helped Fedor survive the Randleman takedown. BJJ guys may not be used to doing a good ukemi. That may really hurt you one day when you get taken down hard and you're not paying full attention while wanting to avoid getting your back hit flat. Good luck.

[Grant Ellis]

Oh man.
I want to go compete in a judo tournament now.

[Striker & Grappler]

I've done judo and bjj for several years. I just noticed that your thread was about a judo tournament :P

What you should expect in further tournaments...

(1) If you haven't trained much judo, they'll obviously be better at judo throws... So, avoid getting ipponed, while avoid being too warned (which takes point away).

(2) You want to get the guy to fail a throw, and get him to hit his stomach down, so as to work on the ground. Once he gets used to this pattern, he may work on ouchigari and kouchigari (like Fedor, Kharitonov, and Randy). You've got to keep your arms tight in. Good kumite, low base.

(3) You need to think of the way to get him to the ground without getting warned. Fake a throw. Wrestling/sambo style takedowns are great. Refer to clips of Georgian and any Slavic judo fighters. They're good reference. Even Iranian fighters have well incorporated wrestling into judo. Anyways, have in mind several ways to do an okay throw attempt that will at least safely get you to the ground.

(4) You can't do a guillotine and I have doubts about a triangle. I think you can't do moves that involve choking the opponent with your legs. They may let you through if the ref doesn't know bjj well, or if they consider your triangle as an attempt to do an armbar. Also, if your opponent lifts you up while you are attemtping triangle or any such moves, they'll usually restart standing. In judo, if you are inactive on ground for 2 to 5 seconds, or if the guy lifts you up (unless he's tapping or getting subbed by an armbar), the ref will restart you.

(5) Judo guys can be real good at holding you down. Don't underestimate their ability to do that. And once they get you down, they just need to keep that position for 20 or 25 secs for you to lose. So, don't get too lazy on your back. They don't need to look for a sub.

(6) And finally, there is little point winning by bjj in judo tournaments if your goal is work on your judo and takedowns. In the future, you may want to focus on your standing. If you don't want to get fully into judo because you want to make transition to mma, then work on the russian judo system, similar to sambo and wrestling. In the last world tournament, the Georgians showed great skills in that domain. Iran and Russia too. Check them out if you have chance.

(7) Watch out for the injuries :) Have a good ukemi. That helped Fedor survive the Randleman takedown. BJJ guys may not be used to doing a good ukemi. That may really hurt you one day when you get taken down hard and you're not paying full attention while wanting to avoid getting your back hit flat. Good luck.

Thanks for the info. Good stuff. Do you have any websites with clips of these judoka you're talking about? I'd love to see it, thanks. :thumb:

[Striker & Grappler]

(6) And finally, there is little point winning by bjj in judo tournaments if your goal is work on your judo and takedowns. In the future, you may want to focus on your standing.



Yeah, you are right. I shouldn't be trying to win in judo with bjj. I could counter well, but I still ended up giving up unessessary points such as yukos by getting half thrown/swept and not landing properly.

One black belt judoka there recommended I first focus more on recieving the throws/sweeps properly, and coming to the mat in a position that won't cost me points---ONLY THEN should I commence the ground fighting.

He said I made a typical mistake of jiu jitsu competetors coming into judo, and that's not paying close attention to how I landed.

The first match I had, I was losing on points because of this, and the second match this was a huge contributing factor to my defeat.

It showed me that I have lots of work to do in the stand up game. Oh, the journey of the martial arts!!!!!!!!!!

[Striker & Grappler]

Oh man.
I want to go compete in a judo tournament now.

You'll have a blast, and just might win the damned thing.

[HolyRamenEmpire]

Thanks for the info. Good stuff. Do you have any websites with clips of these judoka you're talking about? I'd love to see it, thanks. :thumb:

I don't know. I just watch what's on tv. You may find something by searching "judo clip". Just keep eyes open for Georgian, Iranian, and Russian judo matches, and any other by East European/exCCCP judokas.

[HolyRamenEmpire]

Well, would help to know the basic of judo to do well in a judo match :) Current international judo refing can be literal about the body-point system. If your ass lands, koka. If your side lands, yuko. If your shoulders/back lands, ippon. They sometimes don't take in account the power of the move. Even if its a sloppy ass throw that first gets you on your side, if your opponent manages to push your back on the ground, ippon~. Can be a pathetic view.

Anyways, the mindset of not landing on ass, side, or back is similar to wrestling. If you're used to pulling guard, then work with the mindset of never pulling guard. I used to be a guard guy, but one day, I was told "no more guard, no more going to your back". Good luck.

Yeah, you are right. I shouldn't be trying to win in judo with bjj. I could counter well, but I still ended up giving up unessessary points such as yukos by getting half thrown/swept and not landing properly.

One black belt judoka there recommended I first focus more on recieving the throws/sweeps properly, and coming to the mat in a position that won't cost me points---ONLY THEN should I commence the ground fighting.

He said I made a typical mistake of jiu jitsu competetors coming into judo, and that's not paying close attention to how I landed.

The first match I had, I was losing on points because of this, and the second match this was a huge contributing factor to my defeat.

It showed me that I have lots of work to do in the stand up game. Oh, the journey of the martial arts!!!!!!!!!!

[Eric Persson]

Great thread. Good job in competing in a style in wich you never trained. Impressive.

[Razor Bump]

Nice throw. My coach Sheldon Marr has a Michael Jackson leg step to set Osoto Gari up. He usually puts them in Grappling magazine.

http://www.grapplers-edge.com/

There's the website. If you stop in Colorado ever, come down and say "I'm Bumpy's friend" you will love it.

[Striker & Grappler]

Thanks for the compliments everyone but I know I have a lot to learn.

Here's proof of it!


http://tinypic.com/drfe3k.jpg



:) :) :)


Hopefully in the next thread it will be me doing that!