Daniel Puder

[Paul T]

Hey, anyone following Dan Puder?

Apparently he has a MMA record of 4 and 0
but had been in small regional events.

Now he is trying to get into Pro Wrestling
and is on the WWE show "Tough Enough".

He had a short "match" with Kurt Angel
and put The former Olympian into a Key lock
almost immediately. However he was on his
back and got counted out 1 2 3 right away.
wouldnt look good to have the WWE super star
submitted in about 30 seconds by an unknown . . .

I have a clip of it and can post if anyone is interested.

[Grant Ellis]

I saw that clip.

Angle had a hard time taking him down to.

[Rattlesnake840]

Daniel Puder has a amateur submission record of 4-0 and a professional Mixed Martial Arts record of 1-0 in MMA events his only fight was in a place called X-1 in Japan and beat a guy by the name of Jay McCown(1-1 in MMA) in a Decision (Unanimous).

The thing that happend of Tough Enough was real and wasnt scripted, Angle was pissed about what happend, but was more pissed at yelled at Puder back stage asking him why the hell he fell on his back in a WWE match. If it would of been a real fight Angle would of kicked his ass. On a side note I think it was funny when that happend the crowd starting chanting UFC

[FieldingMellish]

Puder's fight record isn't that overwhelmning but he's actually been around for a long time. He was one of Frank Shamrock's main training partners for his fight with Tito Ortiz.

Rattlesnake840:
I doubt Angle would have kicked his ass in a "real fight" -
1. he had a hard time taking Puder down
2. Angle is absolutely riddled with injuries
3. the whole thing was set up for Angle to embarrass the Tough Enough contestants as WWE had them do loads of exercise after a heavy meal to make them throw up and THEN they put Angle out there too and Puder was still fresh and put up a good fight
4. Angle has no submission or striking training
5. that Kimura was in very, very tight and if he'd wanted to Puder could have seriously injured Angle

[Grant Ellis]

Yeah, me and a few fighters agree that in 5 more seconds Angle would be tapping out from the kimura.

[TrojanStud]

Well, he shouldn't have been on his back. Pinned down is pinned down in wrestling and gets you counted out. Aside of that, Angle is just too injured to deal with any "real fighting" me thinks. He probably doesn't work hard on his technique. His environment is scripted so there's no need, and seeing how he had issues taking Puder down. Time will tell whether that stunt was good or bad for Puder's career in pro wrestling.

[Grant Ellis]

Worst case scenario:

Puder knees Angle in the groin, rakes his eyes, then elbows the back of his neck... it is pro wrestling after all.

Then the rest of the tough enough contestants knock out the referee.

GIant Silva comes in with the chair.

Use your imagination.

[TrojanStud]

... it is pro wrestling after all.

Exactly. And there pinned down is pinned down. It was in no way, shape, or form a showcase of MMA vs Pro Wrestling. I'm no fan of "pro wrestling" but I realize there are two different beasts with two different set of rules. I mean, saying that 5 more seconds and Angle would've been submitted by the MMA-fighter is like in the 12th round of a boxing fight blurting out "boy, would've that losing kickboxer's knee just hit him clean on the head, he'd be knocked out now". I.e: the technique does not apply to the situation.

[Grant Ellis]

Well, pro wrestling in North America isn't really viewed as a legitimate test of athletic competition, so the spirit of the thread is silly.

I mean, this whole thread is really silly trying to debate "Well, Puder would win under MMA rules", but the truth of the matter is Angle was locked in a kimura anyway you look at it. It is not like saying "The kickboxer would have ko'd him" because a kimura can be used in pro-wrestling. Puder simply stayed on his back when he should have been rolling and trying to keep off his back.

Bottom line:
The kimura is allowed in pro-wrestling. Puder was attempting it for a bad position. Puder lost. The technique DOES apply to the situation though.

Our whole point, from the mma world, at least with the fighters I talk with on a day to day basis, is that Angle may have got the pin, but Puder did what we would expect any real fighter to do. If he lost, he lost. But that is the way new sports are born (like the man who picked up the soccer ball and ran with it. Boom. Rugby is born.)

I mean, we've seen ladies secure straight armbars in Judo tournaments only to have the referee BREAK it up and restart them standing, when the arm could have been broken in just 2 more seconds.

You can't really fault anyone for losing a pro-wrestling match, because it's not like those "Rules" are gospel.

[TrojanStud]

There's no need for Angle to bother about it when getting a position that finishes the fight. To say Puder was attempting it from a bad position is an understatement. Pulling guard in a pro wrestling fight is moronic. I'm not sure how the "what any real fighter would do" point applies. He's training to be a part of the pro wrestling scene so it's not like he was thrown or forced into it. Therefore, you'd have to assume he knows the rules, although from how he played the game that night, I'm left wondering. Two fighters get into a fight with each their own set of rules in their mind. How does it matter why one acts like "any real fighter", for whomever's definition of a "real fighter", when he's supposed to be abiding by a number of rules? That was the spirit of my comparison. I'll bother and make a more appropriate metaphor the next time.

And perhaps Puder would've rolled if not Angle had been concerned with pinning him down.

[Greg Kalikas]

Here is a link to a recent interview with Daniel Puder - http://198.65.144.7/pkw/puder.wma

[Rattlesnake840]

Thanks alot for the interview man its very good :)

[FieldingMellish]

Time will tell whether that stunt was good or bad for Puder's career in pro wrestling.

Depending on how WWE use him (and they have a terrible record of missed chances lately) it should be a HUGE boost for Puder. Before that he was more or less just one of the Tough Enough crowd but from that situation (and from his arm-wrestling success last week) he's picked alot of WWE fan support. And since this year's Tough Enough is a popularity contest he's got an excellent chance to win it. Also, WWE officials seem to like him (Vince McMahon and Kevin Dunn have apparently been betting with each other on Puder's progress) and once he'd calmed down about the whole thing, Kurt Angle was very interested in working some kind of, well, angle based on the situation in the next few months. Being linked with Angle so early in his career can only be agood thing, if they do it, and if Puder doesn't absolutely suck at pro wrestling. He already has aready made gimmick and more fan support than he could have ever expected.

[Paul T]

Here is a link to a recent interview with Daniel Puder - http://198.65.144.7/pkw/puder.wma

Thanks! That was a good Radio spot!
I will go to WWE.com and vote for him
:-)

[Greg Kalikas]

Thanks! That was a good Radio spot!
I will go to WWE.com and vote for him
:-)
No problem. Glad you liked it. Puder is a good guy and sometimes comes off as cocky but hes really a talented fighter. He will do the sport good if he makes it. Good luck to him.

[LeftHookKO]

Honestly, i've never seen any of Puder fights, but he trains near where I recently moved. I'm thinking of joining AKA, which would be really interesting seeing how I used to train in Ceasar Gracies in Pleasant Hill, CA. I'm voting for Puder to take the WWE show and KO the MIZ.

[Charuto]

I doubt Angle would have kicked his ass in a "real fight" -
1. he had a hard time taking Puder down
2. Angle is absolutely riddled with injuries
3. the whole thing was set up for Angle to embarrass the Tough Enough contestants as WWE had them do loads of exercise after a heavy meal to make them throw up and THEN they put Angle out there too and Puder was still fresh and put up a good fight
4. Angle has no submission or striking training
5. that Kimura was in very, very tight and if he'd wanted to Puder could have seriously injured Angle
I don't think the incident was a good showcase of Kurt Angle's skills. More likely than not, he probably wasn't expecting Puder to actually try to win the exhibition. If Angle were prepared (ie knew about it beforehand) for a real fight, I think his Olympic caliber wrestling and natural athletic ability would make him competitive at the very least. Also (don't quote me on this) but I've read somewhere that Kurt Angle has some experience in sambo, so I don't think he has absolute zero experience with submissions.

[LeftHookKO]

I don't think the incident was a good showcase of Kurt Angle's skills. More likely than not, he probably wasn't expecting Puder to actually try to win the exhibition. If Angle were prepared (ie knew about it beforehand) for a real fight, I think his Olympic caliber wrestling and natural athletic ability would make him competitive at the very least. Also (don't quote me on this) but I've read somewhere that Kurt Angle has some experience in sambo, so I don't think he has absolute zero experience with submissions.
If I remember what I read correctly, both the writer who came up with the idea of the shoot and Kurt Angle were both confident that there would be no way for him to look bad. So I think a little bit of over self-confidence had a bit to do with him being made a fool. Anyways, with Kurts bad neck and lack of practice, I think a real match would have ended like this shoot or Frank Shamrock vs Kevin Jackson.

[FieldingMellish]

I don't think the incident was a good showcase of Kurt Angle's skills. More likely than not, he probably wasn't expecting Puder to actually try to win the exhibition. If Angle were prepared (ie knew about it beforehand) for a real fight, I think his Olympic caliber wrestling and natural athletic ability would make him competitive at the very least. Also (don't quote me on this) but I've read somewhere that Kurt Angle has some experience in sambo, so I don't think he has absolute zero experience with submissions.

The thing is, Angle did know about it beforehand. It was the Tough Enough contestants who didn't know Angle was going to wrestle them. And nobody ever made it clear to the contestants it was intended just to be a freestyle wrestling thing either. Angle said he was going to kick their asses, he didn't say he was going to wrestle them. Therefore it's perfectly understandable Puder would go for a submission. Throughout this year's Tough Enough the company have kept the contestants in the dark.

And I wouldn't believe that thing about Angle doing sambo either. He was always fully committed to wrestling and then moved into pro wrestling. I follow pro wrestling very closely and read alot of insider stuff and I've never heard of Angle doing any sambo whatsoever. First of all he just wouldn't have the time and I very much doubt he'd have the inclination..

[Charuto]

Nah I didn't mean knew about it beforehand as in Angle didn't know about the bit, I meant he didn't expect the guy to fight back (due to either him being in prowrestling mode for too long or just being extremely cocky like LeftHook was saying).

Honestly, I don't know why I'm as concerned about this as I am, I haven't even liked anything Kurt Angle's done since he went from being a nerd to just a generic badass. I guess I don't expect Puder to walk through Angle in a real fight (despite having seen Jackson x Shamrock) because I just don't think Puder is that good. Fuck Tough Enough anyway though. The closest thing they've ever had to a real star is the Harvard guy and he's just about done for. You're probably right about the sambo thing though. I went to search for some confirmation after my first post and didn't come up with anything.

[FieldingMellish]

Nah I didn't mean knew about it beforehand as in Angle didn't know about the bit, I meant he didn't expect the guy to fight back (due to either him being in prowrestling mode for too long or just being extremely cocky like LeftHook was saying).

Ah, I get what you mean now.

Honestly, I don't know why I'm as concerned about this as I am, I haven't even liked anything Kurt Angle's done since he went from being a nerd to just a generic badass. I guess I don't expect Puder to walk through Angle in a real fight (despite having seen Jackson x Shamrock) because I just don't think Puder is that good. Fuck Tough Enough anyway though. The closest thing they've ever had to a real star is the Harvard guy and he's just about done for. You're probably right about the sambo thing though. I went to search for some confirmation after my first post and didn't come up with anything.

I used to love Angle as that nerdy heel. The time he was wearing that kid's sheriff hat and badge still cracks me up. He was an awesome comedy character who could do great matches as well as interviews. Shame he's got such a lame character and a broken down body these days.

I don't really think Puder's some kind of amazing fighter either (partly as I've never even heard of him let alone seen him fight before Tough Enough) it's more that Angle is SO injured these days. He really needs to quit wrestling before he ends up in a wheelchair.

As for Tough Enough, this year's really sucks. I much preferred the old format. Have to disagree with you about Harvard Chris (by the way, you ever notice just how much he looks like Wes Sims when he has his hair long and curly?) though. They had a much better shot of making Maven a star but they fucked it up on his very first appearance and now nobody cares.

[Paul T]

Maybe Puder should have waited, as Spike TV has a show to groom
"The Ultimate Fighter" starting in January . . . .

[FieldingMellish]

Maybe Puder should have waited, as Spike TV has a show to groom
"The Ultimate Fighter" starting in January . . . .

Don't know about that really. From the names I've seen floated around for the UFC show it seems they were after people who'd had a little more actual fight experience than Puder. Also in Tough Enough he has something that makes him instantly stand out and gives him a little mystique - his MMA background. And of course the cash prize for the Tough Enough winner is alot bigger too.

[Paul T]

Don't know about that really. From the names I've seen floated around for the UFC show it seems they were after people who'd had a little more actual fight experience than Puder. Also in Tough Enough he has something that makes him instantly stand out and gives him a little mystique - his MMA background. And of course the cash prize for the Tough Enough winner is alot bigger too.

you have a good point there. It is like he has a
instant "gimmick" the others dont have. I do not
know much about the UFC show, just that it will be happening.

looks like they are having a Boxing match for Puder
and the other final TOUGH ENOUGH contestant.
http://www.wwe.com/shows/smackdown/toughenough/overview/
but the fans still decide by vote, and it will all be over
December 16th on the Smackdown show. . . . . .

[FieldingMellish]

The result of the Puder-Mizanin boxing match at the 12/12 WWE Armageddon PPV show, as reported on www.liveaudiowrestling.com in their match-by-match coverage of the show:

"Daniel Puder vs. Mike Mizanin is up next. [Tough Enough trainer Al] Snow said Miz won the round. I think Puder but it was close. Both gassed out already. Definitely a moral win for Miz at this point. Puder won the second round. Miz would have been dropped if the round was 30 seconds longer. Both are gassed like crazy but Miz is more gassed. It went the distance. Very close. They are letting the fans vote. Puder got way more cheers. Dumb way to decide it."

Looks like Puder isn't exactly the second coming of Sugar Ray Robinson if he couldn't KO somebody smaller, who's not exactly in great physical condition and has absolutely no boxing training whatsoever.

[Paul T]

Interesting. here is the "Official" WWE write up:

DIXIE DOGFIGHT GOES DAN'S WAY
It didn’t come as easily as expected, but Daniel Puder won a decision from the crowd over underdog Mike Mizanin in the $1,000,000 Tough Enough Dixie Dog Fight Sunday at Armageddon.

Puder, a former cage fighter, hit Mizanin with a couple of strong right hands early in the three-round bout, but Mizanin was able to hang around by staying active and grabbing when in close quarters.

Since nobody was knocked out during the three rounds, SmackDown! General Manager Theodore Long let the fans of Atlanta decide. And the crowd roared its approval for Puder, who has won the last two challenges and four overall in the competition.

Puder and Mizanin will now have to wait for the WWE fans to vote for their favorite in the $1,000,000 Tough Enough. The winner will be announced this week.