IS DEAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[heckyl]

http://sherdog.com/news/news/elitexc-nov-8-event-pro-elite-on-rocks-14860

take EXC out of the prefix, folks.

kthxbye.

discuss.

[Kenshin]

Ok that sucks. Was looking forward to Eddie vs. Nick :(

[tinobar]

the next card was really good too

[Kenshin]

I think a interesting question now is: What's next for Kimbo?

[timmothy84]

Tito's contract must of went out the door to then. What will happen to Kimbo and Tito Ortiz now. Strickforce maybe.

[machsaku]

Strikeforce or Affliction ( and maybe WEC ) picks up whatever remaining fighters they can. possibilities for Nick, Eddie and others in Japan and all the while UFC and Dana reign supreme and thats that. I'd maybe even like Robbie Lawler back in the UFC and Eddie for sure.

Kimbo should try and sign up for the Fighting Fedor reality series thats going down...:):):) yeah right.

[heckyl]

it kinda sucks because i really liked the sho xc cards, and alot of the exc fights that were put on. another free mma show bites the dust.

[miscmisc]

The writing was on the wall. EliteXC wasn't going to survive anyway, especially under this economical climate. It would've folded with or without Seth.

What concerns me the most is all the small orgs that Pro Elite purchased over these months. I was really worried about that back then, and now it's ended in the worst way possible.

Some people need to smell the coffee. This isn't the end of the story. Another org or two will follow pretty soon. No one is safe any more.

[loreia]

Sad news, but hardly surprising.

[ilostmydog]

The writing was on the wall. EliteXC wasn't going to survive anyway, especially under this economical climate. It would've folded with or without Seth.

What concerns me the most is all the small orgs that Pro Elite purchased over these months. I was really worried about that back then, and now it's ended in the worst way possible.

Some people need to smell the coffee. This isn't the end of the story. Another org or two will follow pretty soon. No one is safe any more.

I have been told that KOTC is safe, as they apparently revert back to Terry Trebilcock's ownership now that Pro Elite went under. ROTR is safe as JD Penn was just lending them the name, but that doesn't really matter because they rarely hold events now anyways.

One can hope that ICON and CR had similar clauses in their sales, but probably not. Icon was doing fine without Pro Elite, and they had some pretty good fights over the past couple years. CR was probably screwed either way.

[Lord Gaul]

MMA will be a nitch sport before long. It will be a very good nitch sport, but nitch never the less. We just needed to get past this replace boxing thing. I think there is still good money in it and UFC is safe for the time being. There was a small window of hope for it being more then nitch, but it looks to have a good home between boxing and kickboxing.

I think that Strikeforce and ICON or fine. Even if Dream does leave something will replace it in Japan.

[aubtin]

Shame, the next card was decent. Can't say it's at all surprising though.

[Paxlie]

This is just sad :(

[MZN]

Putting together generally nice fights is void when every move made by the company only works themselves downwards.

[K-1 Extremist]

I'm most sadenned about the loss of ShoEX. A lot of exciting young fighters were showcased there.

[miscmisc]

I have been told that KOTC is safe, as they apparently revert back to Terry Trebilcock's ownership now that Pro Elite went under. ROTR is safe as JD Penn was just lending them the name, but that doesn't really matter because they rarely hold events now anyways.

One can hope that ICON and CR had similar clauses in their sales, but probably not. Icon was doing fine without Pro Elite, and they had some pretty good fights over the past couple years. CR was probably screwed either way.

Thanks for the update.

We need all the small orgs we can get. MMA is now way too wide-spread in the US to be able to afford to have no smaller shows. Total monopoly could instantly kill it, exactly because the economy is in for a tough time ahead. People tend to misunderstand what those "mergers" mean in recessions. They do that simply because there is no other choice, not because that's the efficient way to survive or keep the market. They actually constantly sow bad seeds by doing that, for yet another future turmoil.

Anyway, I still expect another org or two to cease to be some time soon. You can't get money out of thin air anymore.

[Chewbaca Joe]

T Jay is saying he thinks Icon is fucked. It's on MMA Weekly right now.

[Paul T]

well, it must be true, it is even on YAHOO
http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/news?slug=dm-elitexc102008&prov=yhoo&type=lgns
:-)

Seriously, i hope most of the fighters are able to find a new home.

[Chewbaca Joe]

They had the stupidest name. Well, besides "Affliction" anyways.

[EckY]

Im really annoyed about no Diaz/Alvarez in 2 weeks.

Hopefully this will lead to some other cool matchups we didnt expect to see.

[( o Y o )]

its really a shame...

[Viva Las Vegas]

Poor Jared Shaw. I'll miss that guy. Right up there with Dana. Two class acts.

[K-1 Extremist]

I really hope something like ShoEX pops up to replace this show. It was very fun to watch, free on Showtime, and it had both Mauro and Steve Quadros commentating.

[PRIDE_Forever]

This is not good for MMA.

[Shiruba]

I'm not very sad about this because of stuff like adding those weight classes and some people behind the org saying that the groundgame is boring.

The next card looked great but I don't like the people behind it, so good riddance.

[sweeptheleg]

The writing was on the wall. EliteXC wasn't going to survive anyway, especially under this economical climate. It would've folded with or without Seth.

What concerns me the most is all the small orgs that Pro Elite purchased over these months. I was really worried about that back then, and now it's ended in the worst way possible.

Some people need to smell the coffee. This isn't the end of the story. Another org or two will follow pretty soon. No one is safe any more.

Echoes my sentiments exactly. I really hope that the other orgs EXC gobbled up and the fighters in those orgs will rise up or be picked up at some point. The worst part of all of this is the limbo that all of these fighters will now be in. I just hope that the UFC/WEC and other orgs pick these fighters up soon so we can see them fight before 2011.

[FieldingMellish]

The writing was on the wall. EliteXC wasn't going to survive anyway, especially under this economical climate. It would've folded with or without Seth.

Simply not true.

CBS were in advanced negotiations to buy the company. They were happy with the ratings for the first and third shows and wanted more.

They only pulled out when Seth opened his mouth. It was the bad publicity and the 'match fixing' scandal that scared them off and signalled the end.

Blaming the economy (as some former EliteXC staff have done) is a lame excuse.

[miscmisc]

Simply not true.

CBS were in advanced negotiations to buy the company. They were happy with the ratings for the first and third shows and wanted more.

They only pulled out when Seth opened his mouth. It was the bad publicity and the 'match fixing' scandal that scared them off and signalled the end.

That's what they say.

I stand by my statement/opinion that EliteXC was going to die sooner or later no matter what. If you think I said that simply off the top of my head without knowing what you explained above, you couldn't be more wrong. It was my educated guess based on what I heard and knew, which certainly included what you said above. I actually can't believe everybody (including virtually all the journos with a few exceptions) simply buys that official story. Seth single-handedly killing a big MMA org, by saying only that much? Nope, hard to buy. It's impossible for me (and even CBS employees, believe me) to believe that that was the whole story. TV people regularly bullshit about their programming and actions and the rationale behind it. They change their mind on a daily basis, too. I've seen it all the time. And there were lots of signs that investing in EliteXC/Pro Elite didn't make sense to CBS executives, with or without Seth. The only reason I don't discuss it in depth is it's pointless and not fun.

You can believe whatever you want, and I could be 100% wrong, but I don't need that "Simply not true" from you, with all due respect. You are not in a position to be so definitive (and neither am I, for that matter). I simply don't believe your story, or Sherdog's story or Meltzer's story. When I read that story everywhere, I was like "Huh?" This isn't about some magazine writing every week that an MMA org is up to neck in it with yakuza. CBS that I know aren't such pansies, and the American TV stations as a whole still can't make up their mind about how they should deal with MMA, while their communication with their sponsors has been largely broken now as their business model isn't working anymore in reality. There is so much confusion everywhere. There are still so many people who are betting AGAINST the future of MMA too. This is just one incident under that climate of confusion as far as I'm concerned.

PS: And why would I make "excuse" for them? I didn't even say the economy was the only reason. In fact, if the economy was the only thing that mattered, EliteXC could've been in a better place, as material like MMA COULD do relatively well even in the tough economy, as history suggests depending on what sociological point of view you decide to take. Especially if people don't have to pay for it. They simply tossed it away only because of that "scandal"? Yeah, right.

[FieldingMellish]

That's what they say.

I stand by my statement that EliteXC was going to die sooner or later no matter what. If you think I said that simply off the top of my head without knowing what you explained above, you couldn't be more wrong. It was my educated guess based on what I heard and knew, which certainly included what you said above. I actually can't believe everybody (including virtually all the journos) simply buys that official story. Seth singlehandedly killing a big MMA org, by saying only that much? Nope, hard to buy. CBS and NBC and ABC and FOX are in a FAR more complicated situation right now. It's impossible for me (and even CBS employees, believe me) to believe that that was the whole story. TV people regularly bullshit about their programming and actions and the rationale behind it. They change their mind on a daily basis, too. I've seen it all the time. And there are lots of signs that investing in EliteXC/Pro Elite didn't make sense to CBS executives, with or without Seth. The only reason I don't discuss it in depth is it's pointless and not fun.

You can believe whatever you want, and I could be 100% wrong, but I don't need that "Simply not true" from you, with all due respect. You are not in a position to be so definitive (and neither am I, for that matter). I simply don't believe your story, or Sherdog's story or Meltzer's story. This isn't some magazine writing every week that an MMA org is up to neck in it with yakuza. CBS that I know aren't such pansies, and the American TV stations as a whole still can't make up their mind about how they should deal with MMA, while their communication with their sponsors has been largely broken now as their business model isn't working anymore in reality. There is so much confusion everywhere. There are so many people who are betting AGAINST the future of MMA too. This is just one incident under that climate of confusion as far as I'm concerned.

PS: And why would I make "excuse" for them? I didn't even say the economy was the only reason. In fact, if the economy was the "only" thing that mattered, EliteXC could've been in a better place, as material like MMA COULD do relatively well even in the tough economy, as history suggests depending on what sociological point of view you decide to take. Especially if you don't have to pay for it. They simply tossed it away only because of that "scandal"? Yeah, right.

I agree with you that EliteXC weren't likely to last in the longterm. Their ONLY chance of existing for even a few more months was CBS buying them and thats why I stick by my opinion that Seth killed them off.

You quite rightly say TV stations haven't worked out how they should deal with MMA - which to me makes it far more likely that CBS would have fled at the first sign of a scandal than with an established 'legitimate' sport. This whole situation drew some horrific publicity and CBS is among the most conservative networks anyway. EliteXC was quite the gamble for them in the first place but they were apparently perfectly happy with the rating of the first show and if they weren't convinced then they wouldn't have put out so much advertising for the third one.

Its not a matter of CBS being "pansies". Its a matter of a quarterly Saturday night rating being quite good not being worth it in the face of a scandal. The timeline fits the 'official' story, too. Sale negotiations were ongoing until the shitstorm broke, then CBS pulled out. Seth's words, and the resulting reaction to them, would be more than enough to make the people at CBS who weren't convinced about MMA to pull out immediately and those people who WERE behind it to recognise it wasn't worth truly fighting for.

Having re-read my post I can see why you took exception to me talking about the economy being a "lame excuse". Apologies - I didn't mean to imply you were making that excuse, though it does read that way. My fault.

MMA on free TV would be more than capable of surviving in a tough economy, though only the most generous, ideologically convinced network would stay behind them in the long term.

EliteXC were NOT going to survive much longer with their business model - blowing $26million on the website, $8million on Cage Rage alone, lack of PPV and over $1million a year on their office buildings proved that - but I stand by my statement that the immediate cause of their death was Seth's interview because I'm convinced that was enough for CBS to pull out.

[miscmisc]

I guess the biggest difference between you and me is that I believe that they wouldn't have finalized the deal even without Seth saying that thing on the radio show. You are probably right in that they used it as a great excuse to pull out from it, but that kind of suggests that they weren't really into it to begin with, doesn't it? That Seth "scandal" was spin-able. Fixable, and the Commission wouldn't be able to do shit to "prove" anything. In a few months, nobody (probably other than Dana) would care, certainly nowhere near the point of undermining the whole organization.

Buying an entire org and running it on your own isn't a small deal. You need to work and sort a lot of things and deals out before finalizing such a deal. If the deal was so close to being done, that would mean CBS simply panicked and pulled the plug in the last minute. All that because of Seth's words? That's the part I have a problem with. Far too many people make it sound as if things would've been fine without his words.

Contrary to the impression I might be giving some of you here, I don't even think MMA is such a risky product under this economic cloud (it could be a great investment, though I'm still not sure about the PPV deals), but they are not sure about that. Some people at CBS actually think that if the UFC declines, MMA will simply go down with it. I personally don't even believe that (at least on a long term), but that's what irks them, I guess. They had no fucking confidence in the product they had or were given.

Just one thing:

EliteXC was quite the gamble for them in the first place but they were apparently perfectly happy with the rating of the first show and if they weren't convinced then they wouldn't have put out so much advertising for the third one.

Really? I remember asking heckyl about how much ad campaign for the third show was going on over there in the US, and his answer was "none whatsoever, dude." It was only a week or so before the show. And a friend of mine also told me that it wasn't visible at all unless you were someone who paid a great deal of attention to anything MMA to begin with.

If you are really serious about your program/series, you usually put a lot of effort into your third show/series, even at the expense of the second one.

Was anything else going on that I wasn't aware of?

[Grant Ellis]

The rumor the executives gave me at the Stockton show was they were going to redesign EliteXC around regional promotions as their research showed MMA is a regional sport.

I think that would have been a smart gameplan.

[heckyl]

ill once again say that i saw no advertising for that show whatsoever.

edit: actually i think once i did see a commercial on the ShoXC that was right before it. but that was it, and it was about a whole 20 seconds long.

[krikit]

Spirit MC is reportedly folding. Bad blow for MMA in Korea.

[miscmisc]

The rumor the executives gave me at the Stockton show was they were going to redesign EliteXC around regional promotions as their research showed MMA is a regional sport.

I think that would have been a smart gameplan.

That's an interesting piece of information right there, if it's true. Especially this part: "as their research showed MMA is a regional sport."

Very interesting.

[dragomort]

Spirit MC is reportedly folding. Bad blow for MMA in Korea.

Wow. I thought they had some strong backing and were doing well last I saw too. :(

[heckyl]

from reading in the Rant thread, talking about Korean Won being worth squat at this present time... that have some to do with the folding as well?